Why is rogue epic 2.0 so terrible?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Loviticus, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Loviticus Journeyman

    I don't understand why the rogue epic has to be so bad. 27 damage over 19 delay. It takes a ton of effort to get and it's not even best in slot during it's expansion era. The dagger that drops in anguish hits harder and there are multiple 1hs and 1hb weapons that are better ratios.

    Every other melee class gets an epic that is hands down best in slot. Some of which remain so for 3 expansions.

    How hard would it be for daybreak to fix the mistakes of SOE and change the base damage on it? I know at the time it came out backstab damage wasn't separate. But it is now. So why is this thing not the best in slot item for us? I'm not asking to make the dagger as good as other classes I just want it to be worth the stupid effort to get it and have it be the best in slot item for at LEAST the one expansion it came out in.
  2. Skuz Augur

    Prathun was the developer who was directly responsible for the Rogue Epic 2.0 and he was with the studio for eighteen years 2002-2020.
    It is almost certain that it will not see any further changes. So if you can get a better weapon, go for it.
    All of the 2.0 get replaced in short order.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  3. Szilent Augur

    Aneuk Dagger of Eye Gouging is *23* dly. For its *20%* higher dly, it's 28+1dmg instead of 27+2dmg. Is there some other weapon that you say is better…?
    minimind and Xianzu_Monk_Tunare like this.
  4. Szilent Augur

    he made the quest not the item
    Skuz likes this.
  5. Skuz Augur


    Yeah, I think we can chalk the OP's complaint down to "doesn't really understand what he's complaining about".
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  6. Loviticus Journeyman

    Naw I was just misunderstood. I'll be more specific.

    The Notched Blade of Bloodletting has a better ratio than our epic. So my offhand weapon is better than my epic 2.0. What other melee class can say that? Hopefully that makes more sense so you don't think that I don't understand what my own complaint.

    If I want to do my best DPS I'd only use the epic 2.0 for its click/focus. Then I'd swap to Notched Blade until backstab is just about up, bandolier to Aneuk just for BS, then go right back to Notched. My point, which you missed, is that the rogue 2.0 is garbage.

    It's annoying but honestly, wtf does it matter anyway.
  7. Szilent Augur

    The situation you describe is terrible indeed but it just doesn't exist. Faster weapons are advantaged in EverQuest melee. And augments exist, further advantaging faster weapons (how +2 on each bends the ratios you haven't addressed). And bandoliering isn't lossless! Have you attempted this strat, bandoliering twice every tick? Or even checked the baselines, comparing the melee damage of Nightshade versus NBoB? the backstab damage of Nightshade versus ADoEG? The situation just isn't as silly/terrible as you describe. Nightshade is best and remains best straight through PoR
    Genoane and minimind like this.
  8. Kalipto Augur

    Nightshade is fine. Just don't compare it with other class epics or other weapon type ratios. Piercing is just different.

    Szilent I'm curious if you've parsed bandoliering.I was asking about it in newbie chat but nobody seems to know. do you lose a round of combat when you use the bandolier?

    I'm also curious about how faster weapons are advantaged. I thought you'd just hit a haste cap either way so the best ratio was what you wanted, aug included. That not the case? I wanna know if I'm playing my rogue wrong.
  9. Szilent Augur

    Faster weapons are advantaged by minimum hit modifiers & fixed damage adds. This can be balanced off versus Flurry mods only boosting main-hand damage, which favors big slow weapons (as long as the ratio is still good) - that factor carries more weight for two handing classes.

    This is not a thing. For years and years, expert rangering included using *10* dly weapons. Even now, beastlords run 2x 18 dly with their primary burn disc 56% HHE.
  10. Cadira Augur

    I just told you not to let people do this! Find em and smack em for me! :)
    Szilent likes this.
  11. Mindra New Member

    Back in the day, a rogue mainhanding a piercer that may have not been the best all around weapon ratio was a common anomaly. Backstab damaged scaled in a way that made this work. Then you offhanded the best ratio you could get; you would often have to wrestle this weapon from your rangers and bards and warriors and that was a little annoying.
    NBBoB is a 1hs, Nightshade was a fine weapon, I've always understood that bandoleering does interrupt a round of attacks. It could be beneficial if there was a big disparity between your piercer ratio and your other weapons, but if you're considering weapons on a similar tier then it's not worth it. That is all.

    -Mindra Skylarker of the Iksarian Broods, Bertoxx.
  12. Mindra New Member

    The way to edit my post is eluding me.

    I want to add in response to your comment on ADoEG that, on the other end of the spectrum, damage ratio and speed could outweigh a few points of backstab damage. This was well exemplified in Velious when epic 1 (at 15/25) was being offhanded for 13/20 and 13/17 weapons. Then in a mid tier PoP guild, you'd certainly want one of many 16/19 or 16/21 pokers over the Gargoyle Talon (17/24).

    So, gear upgrades weren't always homogenized and linear. There were choices to make.
    We're saying that backstab made up for ratio and also that ratio can beat out backstab damage. Somewhere in the middle was a sweet spot. Nightshade was such a sweet spot.

    Anyway I also realized that I'm summing up what a couple others have said up on this thread, but maybe that will help convince you to consider it. Or don't take our word for it, go do some serious parsing and let us know what you find; I mean that constructively.

    -Mindra Skylarker of the Iksarian Broods, Bertoxx.

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