What expansion do you hop off the train?

DoN on phinny but that was because the 6 man I was in started falling apart. IRL started catching up with people. This time I want to try and make it to at least underfoot.

It's basically when raids become a peeing contest between devs' ability to create "SimonSays, Else FatalCalamity", and players' willingness to wipe over and over while until they memorize the necessary script of actions required to avoid said calamities.

Nope. Hard pass. I just wanna bash things with my friends and get loot.

So you want to stare mindlessly at a screen with auto attack? Engaging gameplay that is.

well stopped 1 expansion before live status on phinny... but most didn't last that long... it was a blast though and we were 1 month from live status... but guild crumbled then so that was the end. was one heck of a ride

Eh, berserkers really ain't my jam.

But neither is getting killed because someone else screwed up, the event decided you needed to die because reasons, "missed an emote" failed QTE/SimonSays nonsense.

I would say everyone who makes it into TSS and beyond realizes how much better the game is. The issue is trying to slog through Kunark, LDoN, DoN, and PoR as these xpacs either don't have enough content to last the time cycle or the content just is not interesting.

I make it about 3 weeks into Classic of a new TLP, then quit. I like the early to mid levels, and new launch vibe.

I actually can not think of any fights like that in the last 8 xpacs I have played. Many mechanics in raids have more than one solution to work around them and depending on your class your reaction will be different. For instance in Anguish Ture has a mechanic where he wild rampages for a ton of damage. Some people respond to this by backing out and swaping to a ranged DPS set up. Others may use a abilities to evade or mitigate the damage and still others my coordinate with their group and attempt to heal through the damage. In addition this affects how you will use your abilities and plan your burns.

Another example is the Vish encounter. There is a mechanic where random people are cursed for death and the event has another mechanic to cure yourself. However even then there are ways to deal with it outside this mechanic. Some people will go invulnerable thus avoiding the DT. You can also gate out of the event and avoid the DT or you can coordinate with another player and they can DA you.

A final example is Tjudawos in Crystallos who at intervals summons adds during the fight. You can chose to race the boss down and off-tank the adds. You can attempt to control the fight by off-tanking the boss and killing the adds, or you can attempt to kite the adds and burn the boss. These choices will all depend on your raid make up and guild playstyle.

That is what is cool about EQ is that depending on how you play and what abilities you have access too determines how you choose to deal with different mechanics.

That's why those level 85? starting servers did so well? I'm sure they'll be dismissed for overwhelming people or something else but that's not why those servers died - it was because most people see how bad the game becomes and have no interest in it.

"for the last 8 expacs" and you mention OoW and SoF expansions... EoK definetly had "do it right or wipe" stuff, but once you got the trick down it was "fairly" easy.

I am personally thankful once the moves passed CH chains. Raids wiping because someone else screwed up really sucks. How hard is it read test box so you can a single spell every 10-15 seconds when your turn comes up, for 10-20 minutes...

Which raid? It's been a few years so I may be slightly wrong, but there weren't any events where a single mess up from a single individual would result in an immediate, unrecoverable wipe.

Lceanium? No
Droga? No
Prince? No
Queen? Maybe if multiple people miss the sunlight emote at the same time. Otherwise, no. This mechanic also gives ample time to have the raid to move out of the giant glowing orange flaming death aura so if you just stand there like a dunce and eat it, well, that's on you too.
Vault? No
Karzok? No
Dragon? No
Atrebe? No

I actually played on Miragul so I actually know the answer to that question. That server failed because EQ is not very transparent and when you spawn in at lvl 85 with 20 different abilities that are vaguely described and all the mobs 3 shot you because you don't know how to play your class you get frustrated and quit. 50% of the people didn't even know you needed the click all your gear so you could get the AAs. You throw someone who only plays the first 3 xpacs of EQ into that they are not going to have fun. These issues however are completely separate from the content and the gameplay loop which is just objectively more complex and rewarding.

Now some people just really like the social aspect of EQ as a chat room with some gameplay behind it which is why I think the first 3 xpac appeal to a lot of people. There are no complex mechanics and every class is basic with only a few key things to learn. Allowing you to hop into discord with your buddies and slap some frogs over beers while you chat about your day. Once you have to worry about mechanic and you cant bring your box druid for buffs the game starts to get in the way of your socializing and becomes annoying.

Whatever the current expansion is whenever I completely run out of patience for the people my guild.

Take LDoN's name out of your mouth.

Yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with most players having zero clue on 80% of the new AAs, spells, discs they suddenly acquired with absolutely zero learning curve provided. Thats surely cannot be a reason.

EQ is way more fun doing the same 3 expansions yearly and grinding in the same dozen zones in those expansions and repeating that for 5 years.

Miragul was plagued by the Truebox code. AFAIK not one single player wanted Truebox on the Heroic ruleset but the devs didn't believe the feedback from the players.

Very poor example.

An Heroic boxing server with Mischief rules likely would be an amazing success.

A lot of live players I know loved HOT-ROF. I personally missed HOF and VOA, but there's no denying the creativity of those expansions. The zone designs and lore are top notch.

RoF was one of my favorite expansions personally. I'd love to play it over the again.

There several things that worked against Miragul.

1. They haven't cycled enough TLP's with decent populations into the middle and later era of EQ. So in terms of the TLP player base those era don't have great awareness.
2. The nostalgia appeal of TLP's for returning/new players will always sound better starting from the beginning. Even if people know the content is better later on, they won't draw that connection.
3. There aren't any good heroic tutorial, or guides on set up the UI for heroic characters, teach you which abilities have good synergy which with which other abilities. If you have been gone for a decade, even if you had played during HoT you will still be left confused and lost at the start.
4. Active live players are still connected to playing on live. The segment of those players that might have jumping back to HoT, isn't very large. True box and requiring an active subscription probably didn't help encourage them to try it out
5. The play for Krono crowd, didn't think the server had protentional to draw a large crowd (they were right), and Mangler was still a well known era of Velious for Krono generation. If the current TLP had been at a later era, the portion of that crowd that does know that content, might have given it a shot.


I think in 3-4 years, a server like Miragul would be able to draw a decent crowed. They would need time it's release better, they would also need to create tools to help ease people unfamiliar with those eras into the game at that level. The increase to heroic starting level does throw a wrench into this statement.

There was only one Heroic TLP server, and the quality of the modern game had nothing to do with its lack of popularity. Miragul was ill-conceived because there was nothing you could do on that server you couldn't already do on a Live server, and those players who are able to enjoy the progression path from 85, and not rush through it for the sake of joining a current-content raid guild, were already doing their thing on one of those other servers. The only thing Miragul had to offer was free Heroic toons, and I think you'll find quite a lot of those will survive the upcoming merge into Vox. No reason to rush through everything on a 12-week unlock schedule when it's all just sitting there on a Live server where you can proceed at your own pace.

I would never recommend a brand-new player start with a Heroic character, there are too many mechanical systems being thrown at you at once. A Heroic tutorial is impractical for that reason. It's still easy for a new player to start at level 1 on any Live server, do the original tutorial and then the Hero's Journey, and by the time you ding 75 you'll have pretty much everything you need to know. In my experience, the people who diss the modern game so aggressively have never actually tried it.