we gave FTE a shot

And yet I see folks playing on Oakwynd saying it has made things much better.

Hopefully. If he was my bad not enough coffee before reading posts for me I guess.

I'll eat some of the humble pie as well. My friend group had decided not to play this year because FTE felt like an unwanted abomination the devs had concocted.

After the first 2 weeks, we are all playing. I actually like the mechanics of it.

I'm not sold on them making it a full fledged, all servers default feature - but it no longer appalls me like it did.

Sure you can. Break FTE and then out-damage them. People say "oh this is a bug that will soon be fixed", but the most obvious 'fixes' lead to other exploits. And already there are at least three different exploits that FTE enables.

And I see more saying the reverse. For most people, however, the jury is still out -- though I think once the exploits become better known and more commonly used, their opinion will sour as well.

I actually do not think this will be the case. The majority of players have not been impacted as of yet by those exploits in their general daily play, and what happens in an instance -- stays in an instance. No one cares.

I can count at least 10 times on this TLP, if not three times that many that I would have picked up mobs that some other group/player couldn't control or been trained at a zone line.

One thing I always HATED in EQ was that tacky 'mob wipe off' - like someone gets 8 cyclops on them... they see you fighting one and swing real close in the hopes you will take over some of their problem.

One druid did just that to me, kept running past me in circles on Cyclops Island in OOT. Eventually on the third lap, he finally /yells for help.

I was almost busted on mana so I grabbed just one. It allowed me to assist him with what I could assist him with - not what he tried to dump on me.

For that alone - I like FTE. Whatever exploits are probably no worse than outright kill stealing that has always existed and that lame-a$$ 'mob wipe off' on others.

I do admit - when I first read about FTE my reaction was the complete opposite. I figured it would go pretty bad and cause even more issues, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Again, exploits aside.

That said, exploiting FTE mechanics don't count and should never be the basis for a legitimate argument regarding kill stealing on Oakwynd. Any bug that counters FTE will be patched out. More importantly, if you engage in such practices, you're breaking the rules. Lastly, FTE's entire design and future development is to counter the complete unfairness of a 'damage race'.

To argue the above and to the right points is a waste of time. Oakwynd exists. FTE exists. When FTE is perfected it will be moved to Live, that is Dark Paw is expanding a considerable amount of resources (time == Money) on it's development. I don't believe they are going to scrap it at this point.

Interestingly enough - have you noticed the pick-up raids now where it's mentioned you can "claim any class"?

The Heirloom gear is taking an interesting tanget there. I thought FTE would be more of the 'issue' when I first read about the concept of the server. I actually came to like FTE since, I didn't like the concept at first.

But now - people will be raiding specifically for ALT gear on their mains. Future servers with this ruleset could wind up heavily biased towards casters at the start. That might already be the case on Oakwynd, as a tank, I have noted a lot of groups looking for tanks. Perhaps it's just because I haven't played or needed a tank for the last couple TLPs - playing an enchanter.. lol

You could roll up an 'easier' non-gear dependent class to farm gear for a Melee later.

Soon there will be 'pay for' Kronolords selling alt gear using this system... You won't need to power level a Warrior if he's decked out in the best non-level restricted gear at level 1. I assume once 'recommended/required' levels come into play, it'll mitigate having like PoTime gear from start, but still.. even in full Velious-Era End game gear - that level 1 isn't going to need any assistance leveling for quite some time. Particularly with a legacy bonus.

It might create a glut of this in Luclin as well, just before PoP drops. End of year will be interesting for sure.

I'm not commenting on if it's good or bad, just an observation. I fully planned on twinking the heck out of .. something. Particularly having some fear gear that no one needed and we just greed rolled it. Couple of nice caster items to start out with, for sure.

It's not a "bug" per se. If you heal someone, you get added to the same aggro list they have. That's by design. And changing that enables even more exploits. I supposed they could add a dialog box asking permission for every OOG buff or heal cast upon you, a clumsy solution at best -- and it still doesn't address the (at least) three current exploits that FTE enables, one of which has no clear solution whatsoever that I can see (and no, I'm not going to relate it here).

It replaces it with something that is arguably even less fair. You clear a camp for hours, then when your spawn arrives, the person who gets it isn't necessarily you, but the person who shows up with an insta-click item. Is that "more" fair? At least with a DPS race, you could bring your friends and ensure a victory. Now a solo random griefer can beat an entire group out.

That's by design for a server without FTE.

If FTE is enabled, you are outside the group, and can remove lock? That is a bug as it directly negates the logic of the code.

1. Camps don't exist for everyone as its an agreement that are made between players
2. You can't assume everyone has 'friends' that can come to the rescue. And what about the opposite? What if a group comes in to 'steal a kill' from a single person 'camping' a spawn?
3. First come first serve IS more fair.
4. You don't own mobs in any zone.

Sounds to me like you're after random spawn locations for 'named' cash camps.

I hate to admit it but for the first time I'm tempted to roll a wizard on a TLP

Amd if you don't remove the lock, that enables another exploit. You realize that, right?

Certainly. No system is perfect. My point is that FTE is -- at best -- no better than DPS racing -- and it enables a large number of exploits.

Sounds to me like you're grasping at an argument ad hominem attack. FTE has serious flaws. Argue your case on its merits, not by attacking me.

Exploits in regards to the lock will eventually be fixed.

and many people disagree with you as FTE in action is doing very well. Obviously there are going to be issues (exploits) that crop up, but FTE is in a developmental phase and those bugs are being actively squashed.

You know someone's lost an argument when they need to resort to using a 'fallacy' claim.

Let's be realistic here - What I am doing is dismantling your rhetoric and stagnant so-called 'arguments' - which is not an ad hominin attack. Additionally, you (and all the opposition) need to accept the fact that FTE is probably here to stay, currently isolated to one server, and it's actively being developed.

Feel free to continue to reply, but since we're going in one-way circles and you're now claiming I'm attacking you metaphorically speaking - this tells me you're out of steam and this conversation is effectively over.

You're not understanding. This isn't a coding bug; it's a conflict in rule sets. The only way to fix two of these exploits means changing some other rule or manner in which the game works.

You claimed my opposition to FTE is because I'm a KSing farmer who resents it limiting my ability to grief others. That's a personal attack.

Wizards are BiS with this ruleset and the amount of automation on this server if you want to go that way for lulz.

Flux staff spam increases chances of winning FTE engagements.

Also lots of zone disrupting PLers pulling whole zones then yelling all the mobs to unlock. Best AoE class can get a lot of easy xp and loot. I've started threads about this already that flew under the radar/over peoples heads.

Can be an absolute pest (to people that deserve it) on this server if you choose to as a Wizard.

*than

Unless you were suggesting 2 gaming sessions one after the other in which case never mind.

A relief? Maybe. But it also cheapens the sense of adventure found exploring a dungeon. There IS such a thing as too safe, and we're nearing that now.

A completely valid argument. I had a feeling implementing FTE would bring a more static gameplay, which certainly could be seen negatively from that point of view. I definitely agree with you though, EQ is very very safe with FTE, it all depends if the majority favor that I suppose..

My buddy (rolling solo) mezzed a mob, so engaged it. Another group broke mez and kill the mob. Is there something unique with mez here? Or were they able to cast on the PC to allow engage access or something?

Unless you've never played classic EQ before, that 'sense of adventure' is long gone. With the exception of the lastest expansions, there's just too much information out there for the early game.