Class balance doesn't really seem like a thing EQ has been concerned with over the decades. In a lot of ways, that's been a good thing. It keeps classes from homogenizing like they do in other MMOs. But at the same time, there are some weird and wild imbalances that just don't make sense. Before we get into those oddities, it's important to note that there are multiple outlets that should be considered in terms of balance. Those outlets are: Damage Output Healing Output Survivability Self Utility Shared/General Utility Solo/Molo Ability for XP Solo/Molo Ability for Progression There are some classes that excel at nearly all of these points. There are some classes that don't excel at any of them. For example, if you pick a class that excels only at DPS you would expect that you would always remain competitive with the other classes in that category; if you have the same level of gear, AA, and player skill. However, that's just not the case. A class that only does DPS, playing at the top of their game, will have no chance of being competitive, even though it's the only category they should excel at. These odd imbalances aren't only about DPS. Though it's the one I'm personally most knowledgeable about, so it's the one I speak to. I also believe it's the most egregious imbalance and the one that has the biggest negative impact on the game. One telling sign about the game's imbalance are the maximum AA counts for each class. The highest class has 66,547 AAs. The lowest class has 49,665. That's a difference of 16,882 AAs (almost 26%). It's easy to make excuses for this difference in AA counts and I'm sure people will. But the reality is that some classes just get more, a lot more. Having a slight imbalance is fine. It allows well played characters to achieve success over poorly played characters in their various categories. That's a healthy and good thing. However, that hasn't been the case in EQ for some time. The purpose of this post is to raise awareness. Lots of people talk about class balance on these forums, but those posts are typically about specific classes. This issue isn't about just one or two classes, it's about all of them. It needs a wholistic approach. My ultimate goal would be to have the dev team publicly commit to getting the game balanced. Not just balancing via the next expansion, but balancing across the grand scheme of things. There are already AA in place that could be tuned to help. (Please avoid using this thread to discuss specific classes, as that always leads to asking for nerfs and that's not the point here at all.)
Class Balance in EQ is not a thing the devs believe in, never really have. Players have "Class Hierarchies" in their minds, some have even put forth very well constructed arguments for having a Class Hierarchy or several Hierarchies (DPS, UTILITY, HEALING, SUPPORT ETC). But the Devs cannot let such things get in the way of them avoiding doing any Class Balancing or Class Development, all they can do these days is fix some bugs & pump out expansions & store content to keep the bosses happy, and that's all they get given a budget for really, things like Class Balance & Class Development were pretty much made redundant along with hundreds of former SoE employees to fit the corporate bottom line mantra of the new owners. The game is almost completely stagnant now, it's in a sort of zombie-mode where expansions are happening but no other forward momentum is even considered, just enough is done to keep the game sustainable & is being future-proofed only as much as is required for retention.
I don't think these should be included in class balancing. They should be looked at for sure, but more in an overall game design type capacity.
And, where is ADPS in this discussion. It's not utility. It's a major contributor to class power. And, it's a huge reason why some classes are preferred. Controversial take on ADPS - When a class can tank and heal well enough that a cleric gets subbed out for an ench/bard/dps, that IS ADPS attributtable to the tank.
You got your numbers from Raidloot Bard and SK (low and high). Just mentioning that those numbers don't include AAs added in NoS, Raidloot never added any of those. In a way, it may not be an imbalance. Since SK is considered one of the most OP classes (for their overall ability to do a bit of everything, and much of it well), perhaps the higher number of AAs required IS the way to balance the classes.
I'm convinced that Devs would love to address this but that Management has other priorities. How do you get a Manager's attention?
Somehow succinctly connect $ to class balance with supporting data. The players want it, but is it connected to subs? They buffed wizards to address class balance. How many more subs came of that?
When did they buffed wizards? pretty much a dead class now everytime i go to general chat there's maybe 20 wizards in there channel and if i log on onto any of my other classes there's always 50+.
I'm not. Not in the least. I think they see balance (and general class specific issues in general) as a can of worms they don't even remotely want to open, let alone try to do something about it. I think they know they can just ignore it all and it won't matter because people will keep playing no matter what.
Perhaps. Or it may be that the already long list of to-dos puts it waaaaay down near the bottom. Or both. Who knows.
I think class balance is measured by how evenly the population spreads itself among the classes. If there is a class that no one plays then its got something wrong with it. If theres a class that too many play then its probably OP. It a perfect world there would be just as many playing each of the classes.
It's a shame as I think classes were quite unique back in the early days. I remember playing a rogue in Classic without having to be concerned about whether I was the top damage dealer, or whether I could solo well (always played in groups back then). I think that as we, the player base became more savvy about class make-up for things like raids, we inadvertently set off down a path where we often wanted certain classes over others. Not sure we can ever really go back to that now. I know I don't want the game to be where we all have roughly the same abilities but with different names.
Raw AA counts have nothing to do with class balance. The vast, vast, vast majority of every classes' AA counts do not affect balance in any way. It is what AAs do that matters. A single AA can be made insanely OP if the right effect is used in the right amount. Certain effects are more powerful than others, and different classes get them in different amounts. That is where the issue is. The same applies to spells, which are basically the same thing, and to a lesser extent items.
Bingo. Everything is all about the parse and maximizing whatever role they play beyond everyone else. Otherwise their broken or unhappy.
I don't get the premise of the post. OP brings up that this is to raise awareness. Reality - we are all aware. The only point they bring up is with regards to AA gaps, which Beimeith commented on appropriately. I think? the intent was to reflect on DPS class balance. To do that, you need to talk about the current meta for DPS, which is: Multi-DoTing or ability to generate significant AE damage. Hence the reason necros and mages are top of the chain right now. Other classes that have these capabilities are able to play in the space, but as we all know it is dominated by casters right now. There are some melee that can do good numbers, but rely on mob types and specific AAs associated to them to be high in parse (i.e. Rogue). To me that's a gimic, as in another expansion, it could completely go away. If you want to fix class balance, you need to address the meta. Either allow classes to enter the space also (i.e. Zerkers should reign holy hell AE), or give them significant upgrades to their current tool set that can allow them to compete. These don't happen and are not being activitely assessed, so don't expect things to change unless the meta itself changes (which is currently high xtar count raids utilziing no need for CC or avoidance of damage to them) Should also mention, that most discussion posts about class balance / DPS are inherently rooted into the raid scene. There is a large group of people who don't raid and most likely don't see this as a big issue. DPG's response is to make the raids and content in general more accessible by all and that's where the focus has been (i.e. new banner, easier raids last several years, etc.). Balancing DPS so the top guilds can kill even faster is clearly not a concern for them.
