Two good arguments against classic.

My ideas are all awesome. Im fully aware that they dont have the dev time to implement them all, but my opinions are objectively correct 100% of the time.

My remove rogues from the game suggestion still has a 40% chance of getting put in, and don't forget my various suggestions for nerfing my own OP class!

Sorry but have they announced classic servers? I heard there is also a perma death server? Where are people getting all this info?

There is no information about any new TLP out there, or even if there will be one.

But one assumes there will be one, simply because developers replied in threads that are considering TLP server feedback for a new server. But as far as any official confirmation, there has been nothing (correct me if I'm wrong).

These are the two posts I managed to find, I don't follow Facebook or Twitter, so if anything appeared there, I missed it.

Then don't play the server from the start. Join a year later. that way you don't have to play classic, and those that want to can. Or, hell, play another server that is not in classic.Those restart burnouts demanding that they have it 100% their own way from the start, excluding the classic fans from the game they want to see, haven't got a good argument... They are just acting like spoiled brats.

I don't. I think some people start these servers, get their nostalgia kick, and then leave. The further a server progresses, the less feel nostalgic for that content, and so people drop off. I don't think it has anything to do with the casualness of classic. There are other reasons for attrition, ofc, but your take on it, I feel, is a bad one.

Look, if it was purely casual player bleed because modern casuals don't like classic then a server like P99 wouldn't have 2k people on concurrently so often after all this time.

I agree. You have players who just want to experience classic. Many very vocal folks on this forum.

But my rebuttal would be that that is only part of the demographic playing TLP.

Nostalgia is different for different players, not everyone started playing EQ in classic. EQ had the highest population during OOW if I remember correctly, not classic. So a substantial amount of EQ players didn't start playing EQ until later in the game, which means they don't see classic as nostalgic content.

Then there's a group of casual players who most likely just want people to play with, to group with. I don't think classic is actually a good place to be in for casual players. Classic is actually quite a hostile environment for casual players, with competitive loot camps, large zones resuling in time consuming travel, corpse runs, slow XP, etc. Over time EQ got a lot more accomodating to players who wanted to experience the game and have some fun, but not spend hours setting up groups, getting to camps, doing corpse runs, and fighting for loot camps.

Sure, but where is the wisdom in starting a server in the later lower nostalgia eras and exclude the money of the classsic players?

If a persons nostalgia startes later, then, like I said above, they can simply start playing the server later.

That way, everyone gets the game that they want to see.

Saying no to classic fans is basically saying no to money.

Ok but you know just as well as I do that the reason TLP are popular is largely due to the influx of new players coming onto a brand new server.

I could argue that there is no point in a classic server because every TLP already offers those expansions, even vanilla servers. But I don't do that because I know servers drop in population over time, and people want the brand new server with a high pop.

A more interesting discussion might be why TLP actually drop in population. Is it because, like you might argue, people lose interest after classic. Or is it, like I might argue, because classic is so taxing and demanding on players, that most players simply burn out.

Lol a small vocal minority wants classic? More like a small vocal minority doesn't.

Either way THERE ARE FIVE SERVERS NOT IN CLASSIC ALREADY.

I never said they were a minority my friend, I said that people who want the classic TLP are "very vocal folks".

The way you reply in all bold caps, lends credence to my argument.

Many of the guild mates that I have played with on these TLP servers have quit playing due to their real life taking over and can't put in the kind of time they want to anymore. It's very rare for anyone in all the guilds I have been in to quit playing because they don't like certain expansions past a certain point. However I have seen many about not wanting to start over because they didn't want to slop through all the terribly designed classic expansions.

This is pretty much my thought on this as well. We've already got 3 different points where people can jump in (Coirnav, Ragefire/Lockjaw, Phinny). Progression servers already suffer enough population decline the further along they go, I don't see any reason to create a server that competes for their player base even more directly than it already will.

For me the straw that broke the camel's back on the last TLP, is doing epics. I looked at the quest, trying to remember how much time each step took, and I said 'no', I'm simply not doing that again, I will have no fun doing that.

I have done several epics on vanilla servers in the past, but I can't see myself doing them multiple times.

Of course you could argue that there is no requirement to do epics, and there's not, but there is such a reliance on epic weapons in early EQ, that you almost feel forced to do epic quests in any sort of guild that does any sort of raids. This stops being the case around DoN and DoD where Vishimtar and Dreadspire mobs start to drop weapons that are comparable to epic 2.0 (at least for most classes that don't rely on a particular clicky effect).

A lot of the time consuming and very 'casual-unfriendly' ways the game goes about things in classic-GoD, are evened out later on, both in terms of raiding and grouping.

"EQ is no longer for you", ok fair enough, but there are plenty of people who like EQ for its mechanics and gameplay, but don't enjoy the time consuming parts that interfere with a life they lead that might not be as carefree as it used to be.

There is no requirement to do epics. No raiding guild I have ever been in has forced anyone to do their epic. If you are a cleric, you may feel a little pressure, but most guilds bend over backwards to help their clerics get epics. Everyone else? Who cares. No guild is going to kick you out because you don't do your epic. I doubt anyone is even going to notice if you don't do your epic. No guild is going to fail to kill things because you don't do your epic. You are the only one putting pressure on you to do your epic. I would say that, easily, half my guild on Coirnav never bothered with their epics, everything died just fine.

This is a silly reason to hate early EQ. Hate it because of the limited content, or poor itemization, or boring raids, but epics?

I could argue that a classic server ceases to be classic once Kunark launches. Speaking as one who first entered Norrath about two weeks after it officially launched (hard to believe it has been twenty years) a twenty-year anniversary server that ignored the honeymoon period of EQ would represent IMO a lapse in logic.

You can't recapture that lightening in a bottle that was original classic EQ (lumps and all) - but many on this forum don't seem to recognize that some of us don't see classic EQ as something we have to "endure" until later expansions "save" the server population with additional content.

Some of us actually see Classic EQ as a destination. Someplace we'd like to remain for a while and enjoy - like our honeymoon... before the marriage went downhill and we moved on to other spouses (I mean MMOs.)

Classic EQ is more than just the first step on a journey. It is by definition what some of are actually looking for. Simply classic EQ. Speaking for myself, once Kunark launches on the next TLP I play on, I'll start looking forward to the launch of the next new one.

Ever time I watch Jaws it gets better. And I’ll still be rewatching it 20 years from now.

Perfect reason to start in Velious with a lvl 60 cap. You get several more options for leveling with the Trilogy open from the start. Time to max level, do epics, and gear up. Then 3 months later Luclin opens, time for AA grind and all gear minus 1-2 pieces per class get replaced.

Why make us slog through Classic and Kunark then Velious for a min of 9 months to get to where the server should be in 3?

Cool. It'll be playing on The Hardcore Channel this year.

I'm not opposed to having *a* server start in Classic. I'm all for it, tbh. But having both do so is ridiculous.

Given that there are 6 TLPs currently not at classic, plus live servers. Most likely both will start in classic.

Not starting a TLP server in classic is...dumb. In fact, I wish they would do a SoL locked TLP.

Great way to give people a diversity of options there pal.

'We have two new servers for you, hopefully you like Classic! We've only given that to you the last 3 times, but here it is again.. TWICE!'

The progression of the other 6 is irrelevant... that you're even flogging that as an excuse to get two Classic servers is lol. The only thing you need is one server in Classic to satisfy that demand, not two.

Where do you suggest everybody else that plays casually and doesn't want Classic go? Hell?