Training is against the rules? o.O

I can give you one example. Was trained, the trainer did not shoot off his mouth (he knew better) but I frapsed him, /reported him while frapsing, and submitted video of the incident with fraps and /report reference. Trainer was given a two week suspension, which for some reason was paroled after a week. Either way, he went on to train others, got caught at it, and is no longer with us.

This was two years back, so ymmv. today. It was after the transition to DBG though, so it was DBG not SOE.

Guk can support two plvl groups with out of group level 65's doing the plvling. There is no way that two groups of toons actually getting xp will clear the entire zone.

@ Mulder

Okie dokie then. For a person who cares about rules you have no problem breaking forum ones to suit your needs.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're responding to my post. Sanders griefed my group. I gave an example relevant to the OP as to why griefing is against the rules. No rational person needs help understanding why my example of griefing is against the rules.

I edited my original to talk abot forum rules. Made more sense.

And the OP spoke of training in general (talking about it as it was specifically written in game by devs as allowable) not specific griefing. That was brought up later.

The OP is talking about intentional training, not training in general. It's not against the rules to accidentally train someone with no ill intent, it's against the rules to intentionally train. Hence why most people in this thread don't understand the point of OPs post. Intentional training is griefing. Griefing is against the rules and a thing to do. No one needs help understanding this.

Which again makes me question why you are responding to me other than to point out the fact that I used Sander's example of intentional training as why intentional training is against the rules. If your one major hang up of my post is that I named the person who griefed in my example then I am sorry you are so concerned about Sander's reputation. That's your perogative, however.

If mods see fit that my example of someone else intentionally training is against their forum rules then they may feel free to delete my posts.

Training comes down to both doing measurable harm and not giving the victim any agency about it. The same holds true for something like ninja looting, which can get you similarly punished.

Grouping is not regulated for several reasons. For one, kicking group members is more missed opportunity than anything; you aren't directly hurting people. Meanwhile soe did actually punish for things like stranding would-be groupmates maliciously. I have seen warnings for both a wizard who dumped a group in pohate without permission and also for a group that trolled someone into buying a hate port to find himself laughed away once there. Both were soe days though.

Market transactions/scams the victim generally has control of the consequences. I've seen punishment for taking pay and not doing it, NEVER for a ripoff. I agree with that policy; as long as the victim has agency it should not be on the staff to enforce anything.

Things like camps, dps races (ksing), etc? Within player control and/or not doing direct harm, rather denying something. Since trains do harm (character death) while being largely outside victim control, you get the rule against them.

I was in an EXP group on Phinny and this very thing happened.

Short story time!

Our group consisted of a monk (me,) monk, druid, enchanter, and beastlord. We were in HHK killing goblins in the basement and the other monk went up to bank and saw a guy running up to the nobles camp. In group chat the monk said, ' look at this guy, he thinks he's so cool up their at nobles, I'm going to train him... And, I'm going to do it in such a way to make him think someone else did it...' So, during one of our med breaks, he went up and watched the guy for a few moments in order to get a feel for his pull pattern. Shortly thereafter he sprung the trap... As the guy was pulling, the monk ran and got some NPCs and feigned them out of sight, but in such a way that the guy ran right into them on his way back... Like clockwork it happened and the guy tried to recover, but died from being overwhelmed. It wasn't long before he ran back into HHK screaming for the offender and started to blame random people.

I don't think that I've ever laughed so hard out of game, because of a game, but eventually, my buddy fessed up and the guy was so impressed with the train he came down and buffed our group lol.

And, this is a true story!

Yeah that would qualify as rare.

These threads are great because they make it obvious which posters can be ignored.

You seem to be confused as you are inferring something from what I wrote that wasn't there. I was pointing out that you violated a rule for these forums by naming a person who could then be harassed in game ( as it is your word against theirs). Also, never said training or griefing was okay. Don't know where you got that from.

Sorry you got trained!

Funny how many people think I train people just because I question the status quo. I don't train people, training people is a scummy thing to do.

There are also equally as scummy things that people do that I guess are okay to do in the eyes of your typical EQ player. Good to know.

It's called being polite and being a decent human being? Or is that concept lost on people these days?

This game is almost 20 years old and the mechanics have been the same since day 1.

I suspect the OP is either too young to remember this; so you should stop being one of the 'I want it all my way' generation and just play nice like (mostly) everyone else.

OR

The OP is old enough to remember this; so you should know better than to ask why...

This happens all the time. Bad word filter. You can say most things and get away with it, but there needs to be a limit, whether its once you hotkey it to spam it or when it becomes harassment directed at someone.

I don't understand your argument. Eq lets people use keyboard and mouse to play, but then they make it against the rules to have the program play for you while afk... why even allow the use to begin with?

Cars can go faster than the speedlimit. Weapons can be carried in restricted areas. People can park in front of fire hydrants.

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There is no such thing as selling an item for to much if the person buying it is willing to pay for it. After all every item in this game outside of vendor bait has prices made up by players. There is not a set price for an item or some fancy commission that says what something should be worth.

If someone accidently trains a group that is not against the rules. There are measures people can take to avoid training others and there are measures others can take to avoid being trained. Everyone should have a hotkey that goes something like /occ Train to zone. Some people get creative with this but having a hotkey will allow you to escape and warn others without typing.

Now if you are obviously rounding up mobs and pulling them directly through other peoples camps that are out of the way this is not accidental training unless you seriously are a total newb and are lost trying to get to the zone line. Since the zone line is the obvious exit point to break agro without death others should camp at the zone line at their own risk. In the end its pretty damn simple. Don't be a total D and play nice. If you have a bad pull either take it like a man or follow a common path towards the zone exit and spam your train hotkey to warn others.

Um, actually, the point of this entire thread...though it has been derailed constantly...the original point I was trying to make is that it is stupid that people care so much about training but are okay with people doing scummy things on a daily basis in game.

Because they didn't design how people use words.

They designed how monsters aggro.

And, that makes other bad things (like training) ok?

The levels of mental gymnastics you are putting yourself through to justify training is getting pretty wacky.

Training being against the rules is like not allowing kids outside the classroom and using a hall monitor to enforce it. You can just dump the monitor in a locker and keep doing what you want.

There's no GMs in the EQ's (1 and 2). Do whatever your morality allows for.