The effect of CHA on mez/charm/lull

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dersk, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Baldur Augur

    It's 104 CHA for full discount on vendors that are at least indifferent to you. If I remember correctly it's 134 to get full discount with apprehensive vendors.
  2. Crabcakes Journeyman

    Perhaps, but a level disparity of 2x+y might be telling you much more about the relative effect of wildly different levels than the effect of charisma.

    Something else you're missing:
    Do charisma additions affect characters of low and high levels the same way? Sure, they might show up the same on a character avatar, but is this internal coding that downplays the value of those +9 charisma items when put on a lvl 4 toon?

    A better test might be the juggernauts in old Seb (yes, when Kunark comes out), and use a max level chanter with no AAs for mez, using best mez spell on a Sebilite Juggernaut with max charisma obtainable
    in Old Seb, then again with items and debuffs that bottom out charisma - then do 100 casts and see.
  3. Rauven Augur


    I forgot about this. This happens with Stamina.

    My enchanter gets 3 HP for 2 STA.

    Warriors get a bit more. But an Ogre at level 1 doesn't have over 100 HP. Despite having over 100 STA to start. You just don't get full bonuses for stats until you're higher in level. And then I think it hits a point (probably 250 for each stat) where you see diminishing returns as you level.

    If you have ever seen the formula for AC.. you'd know that they have some crazy formulas.
  4. Rauven Augur

    With that all said.. I have a theory for any one with a bard to test.

    I believe that CHA affects Bard SONGs, as in when they play a song without the appropriate instrument equipped. And that affects the fizzles (missed note rate). Whereas DEX affects it when the proper instrument is equipped.

    But I have a suspicion that CHA won't affect songs like Selos and whatnot that have an instrument skill attached and only the songs with Singing as the base skill. Meaning CHA has very little effect on bard songs overall, at least for the fizzles/missed notes.

    But of course if the bard wishes to mez, charm, and lull properly, investing in CHA might be desirable.
  5. Dersk Elder

    I tortured myself a little more today. More mez on a level 4 ash drakeling by a level 4 dark elf enchanter. Previous numbers from the day before marked with an asterisk. All charisma levels had 100 casts

    Code:
    CHA  Resists
    50     11
    58      9
    70*    16
    85     10
    105     9
    120    14
    130    11
    145    10
    160     6
    170     7
    185*    4
    210     3
    I think I'm going to need a damn good explanation for that trend.
  6. Redik2 Augur

    Prior to Ragefire opening, somebody made a post asking about CHA and if/when it was necessary. I responded and told that person that essentially; focusing on CHA was a poor idea. Because over the years player characters have become more powerful and our resist checks (which far outweigh the importance of CHA checks when mezzing / charming) have basically increased exponentially. (Meaning, if you were to wear the exact gear and charm / mez the exact mob in 2015 as you did in 1999; the 1999 version would resist more often just because PC's were weaker)

    I got blown the f*ck up by all of these "professional" Enchanters who quoted the Runes from 2002.. basically validating my point about how we as PC's have evolved into superhuman avatars since 1999 and are way more powerful in every facet then we ever were.

    Then we all logged on to Ragefire.. and charms were lasting full duration at low levels on red cons with Enchanters who had trash can charisma, and the Enchanter channel was going crazy about how OP charm was and how they were getting full durations with sub 70 CHA.

    Moral of the story... Listen to papa Entelion.

    If you want to be a good enchanter focus your stats in this order: HP > AC > INT > the rest

    Also, your tests are being done on lvl 4 creatures as a level 4. Not saying it's a poor idea however you're going to get some really enigmatic results because you're more susceptible to RNG oddities at such low levels.

    When I hit lower guk and settled into a L/M/H camp the second day the server was up I basically found myself seeing full duration charms more often than insta-break charms, and I'd say mez was resisted maybe one out of 20 times as a Dark Elf. I didn't put any points into CHA. (Max INT and kicked the rest into stamina)

    So.. I know you're curious but trust me.. drop those cats eye agate items and pick up HP/AC gear.

    You can thank me later.

    -Entelion
  7. Dersk Elder


    citation needed
  8. Sirene_Fippy Augur


    Short answer:

    To calculate mez resist rate with a maximum 5% error and a 95% level of confidence, you need 400 casts.

    Long answer:

    The resist rate (r) can be estimated by it's probability (p), +/- some error (E):

    [IMG]

    Say we have two events, A (a resist) and B (mez landing). The probability of A is:

    [IMG]

    We also have to decide what level of confidence (Z) is acceptable. For simplicity, I'll use Z = 2 (~95% level of confidence). Error (E) can be described as (n = # casts):

    [IMG]

    As an example, I'll use one of your tests (120 CHA, 14 resists, 86 mezzes):

    [IMG] [IMG]

    So the probability of a mez resist at 120 CHA is 14%, with an error of 10% (with a 95% level of certainty):

    [IMG]

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you have to align the sun and moon in order to get good data.. I'm just showing how to figure out how accurate your results are in this case.
    Ckador likes this.
  9. Feradach Augur

    Interesting thread that is just begging for a Dzarn response. Let's hope we get one!
    Barton likes this.
  10. Rauven Augur


    God help us if he comes in here. It will answer all questions to be sure.

    But are you ready for it? I don't think so. :D
  11. Elkay Augur


    This, minus INT, is how I've looked at Bard, too. A dead player does zero DPS and zero crowd control. Mezzes and charms will break or be broken. Being able to absorb those hits until things get back under control is far more important that the extra occasional, unpredictable resist.
  12. Tinyhiney New Member

    I am lvl 25 and not had a single mezz break early unless a groupmate is not paying attention. I have had resists but those are very uncommon unless the mob is a yellow or red con. My CHA is 131 and the mez spell I use almost exclusively is Enthrall.

    Charm and lull are a different story as I have not done much of either yet.
  13. Random_Enchanter Augur


    Mezzing is either hit or miss. If it hits i will last the full duration unless acted upon by an outside source (IE spell/melee damage/ DS/ dots). CHA "shouldn't" effect this. There is no thesable test to get empirical data. the only way i can think of to get empirical data would be to vary your cha by 1 point and do 400 casts (see above) on every mob, of every possible Mob level, at every possible char level. Even then you will get arguments around it. This leaves the "Hey Dzarn" out as the only other way to know.

    Charming has several checks. I believe the order of these checks are Time (duration), Spell Resist, CHA resist though i'm not 100% sure on this. These checks are done every tick. It's more of a a question of how effective the CHA check is. Lower resists and higher levels play a more weighted factor than CHA check, that much is for fact. Also factor in the AAs for charming some were (I think there in the spell resist factor)
  14. Rauven Augur


    Its feasible without doing it 1 by 1. You can do it every 10 points, or even 25 points. Just so long as the number of casts is at least 400, though you get better accuracy with more.

    Doing it 1 by 1 would give us the exact formula. Or damn near close to it. But we don't need that. Though it would be nice. All we need to know is IF CHA helps or not, and roughly how much is needed.

    I won't turn down a Dzarn post though. But dang it will blow some minds.

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