I'm curious to hear other clerics thoughts on where your priorities lie. When I'm in main tank group, I consider it obvious, main tanks and other clerics in tank group, but what about when you put in off groups? Where exactly do others draw the line between the group your in, and other groups in the raid?
Usually clerics are put in with a 2nd healer - so I communicate with that healer (or it's already known) who focuses on the group healing, who heals which tanks in the group while the other heals the other tanks and who heals outside the group. That said, I do cheat and add other folks to my extended target because I was always a "utility" cleric before I came here - which meant I covered multiple duties and never focused on one task/tank. Other tanks obviously Person calling "main assist/MA" - if he dies, the raid slows down Enchanters - if it's a mez required or stun bubble required raid Druids - to toss group elixirs on AE heavy events (we don't follow the MGB CR x2 with tranq blessing approach very well) Newer people - who have lesser gear and may die a lot
A lot of what I do during raids is simply watching the raid - trying to stay aware of everyone who is taking damage. Targeting different mobs to see who is on assist. Knowing what AEs are in play and timers for them helps as well (there's nothing like a well-timed splash). Who to heal/buff/rez and what to do first is whatever I think will help the raid most, or will stop us from wiping. If we have a lot of healers, and the MT seems fine (no DI firing, hasn't died yet, etc) I will do more buffing of secondary tanks and splashes. One of my favorite things about splash is that it can be a cue for who else in the raid is taking damage. I can then direct my attention elsewhere as needed. If someone dies, I will rez them between heal casts. I will rez whoever I think is most important to raid survival first (healers > tanks > DPS). A lot of times, when healing, I get tunnel vision and stop noticing what's going on (including when people die), but I try. If the MT is dying, DI is firing frequently, several tanks have died already and they don't have discs up, I tend to do more buffing than healing. I feel that increasing the current tank's survivability is more important than 5s of healing that may not matter 10 or 20 seconds later (because they are dead). It's a crapshoot though, as unbuffed tanks with no heals vs buffed tanks with no heals are equally dead. I don't think my group is special. I will let them die if I think my attention is better spent elsewhere (even in tank groups). It certainly is easier to save and heal my own group, but I will focus more on the MT if they aren't in my group and I feel it's needed. If another tank / some other critical raid member isn't in immediate danger, I'll heal my group, of course. The raid probably isn't going to wipe if I neglected to heal some offtanks in my group, or DPSers dying from emotes/AEs/pulling aggro. For example, I will rez an enchanter on Arx 1 before doing anything else, as they are more important than the MT during this raid. Sorry for my group, I guess.
Every raid is different. And every heal team is different. I am nearly always paired with another healer in a tank group. We discuss who will be healing whom. If it is a MT tank group, who will stay on the MT, and who helps toss support if needed (usually group heals, other group member healing, things like DI on the other hand is coordinated team wide). If it's an OT tank group, we discuss who will heal whom. Divided up in such a way so that it is fairly equal, which takes some knowledge of how your fellow tanks do their job and how aggressive they are, etc. If their targets looks okay, they help on mine, and vice versa. If my target look okay without them helping, they move on the their ETW, which includes the MT, among others. Or they help with splash, buffing, rezing, etc. Populating your ETW will vary by raid and guild too. Typically we add all warriors out of group. They all play hard and aggressive. SK's, same reason. Pallys, we know which ones in guild are aggressive and tank stuff requiring a constant eye on them, and which don't. After that we start adding critical non-tanks. Such as the MA, CC / enchanters depending on event. FV if it's TDS raid 1-4. Lately we've been having group leaders, in multi-healer groups, set the healers as group main tank / group main puller. This allows the other healer to set a slot in their ETW to "group main tank / puller's target" and that way each healer always know's who the other person is healing at any given time. I've been finding it a nice way to not overlap healing. If I know my partner in group is healing someone in group, and they look okay, I can move on to something else. If our whole group looks fine, and I see they are on the MT, and they look fine, I know I can roam around the ETW to heal others, or do more utility. Or, If our group is okay, and someone on our ETW needs help, but I already see my partner has them targeted, I know it's taken care of and can move on to something else, another target, role, whatever. Also serves a nice secondary purpose in evaluating applicants. Triage gets far more complicated when you start thinking about all the possible actions you could or could not take, and that some will have negative consequences for some people but still be in the best interest of the raid. Not everyone can get a rez the second they hit the floor. Some rezs are more important than others. Divine rezs aren't for everyone. Sometimes buffs on less critical classes have to wait. Part of it is also knowing your team and who tends to do what, buff wise. I know who has rank 3 symbol and who will be casting it, so i don't typically bother. Likewise I know if I don't cast SB on the tank, it may not get done. And sometimes you get to pick who lives, or even just has a better shot at living, and who ides, because the raid needs to be thought of as a whole entity, with some parts being more critical than others.
How about this example: 3 main tanks and 3 main clerics in group 1 I'm in a group with 4 SK's and a Bard who are kiting.
In that particular example, given that you are 1) in the kite group and 2) the only healer in group, your priority would be with them near all the time*. Depending on event you may be far away from the raid to be in heal range of one or even multiple kiters. You may need to cure movements debuffs. Rez, rebuff, etc. The loss of a MT, while bad for the raid, has backups. The loss of a kiter, if their mob gets loose, can do much more damage to the raid. Also note that the MT already has existing support. Plus others healers / classes tend to help if their own group needs are met. Your group, your kiters, while they may (should) be on other people's ETW, they won't have as much support. If your group isn't actively kiting at the time, then you have more flexibility to heal outside the group. *with the caveat that some events are easier / harder to kite with less / more consequences of failure, and that you can adjust how much you watch them
Agree with Tour, In that situation, your heal lead (or you) need to be proactive and assign some of the DPS healers to add some of yours to extended target. Unless you have no one tanking and just the one person kiting. Where possible, I'd think a smart guild either would have swapped one SK for something else (let's be realistic here if more than 1 of your tanks is taking damage for long periods of time on something other than sporadic adds (DH2, etc.), there's little chance long term to single handedly successfully heal everyone for long periods of time unless they're close together where group heals become effective). - e.g. DH2, 2 healers can keep 3 tanks up with group and single target heals on the Sergent's (if all 3 offtanks are in the same group). - e.g. Bixie 1 group heals and single target heals will heal multiple tanks there on all the add spawn waves. - WK2, if you're up top kiting adds, 1 healer could definitely handle that duty (though I'd assume you have a 2nd person down below whose job it is to have you on target in case you go down where they can fade and get up top to heal) ~~ Separately, I have personal thoughts about the effectiveness of having 3 tanks with 3 healers in the same group.
I'm not experienced to know any different, but I do like it when I'm in that main group, easy to concentrate on primary targets. Keep in mind these are guest raids, usually with many first timers, add in some difficulty with getting people into team speak, and the fact we only have 3-4 clerics (one time just 2, but Obi and I knocked it outta the park :-D)
This is what I was looking for, affirmation of my thinking, but I still can't help but feel guilty if tank goes down, I have to catch myself before I use my Divine Rez on them.
You're more experienced than you think you are Roxxy! And yes, the guilt still gets me to this day here as well.
Priority One is to keep me (The Warrior Tanking the big bad boss) Alive. If the warrior (Me) doesn't die, chances are you won't wipe. If the Warrior(Me) dies, chances of wiping increase by quite a lot. Screw kiters, keep that Warrior (me) alive who's tanking the boss. If kiters are taking so much damage that you can only focus on healing them, something is amiss. I mean the whole point of kiting is usually to keep that mob from causing it to damage you/the raid. After the Warrior I would say the Warriors Clerics are 2nd priority. After those, I would go with the Main assist I suppose. You're off with Bdallya having a tea party! This makes so much sense now.
"Priority" doesn't mean only thing they, as an individual, do. But if both their kiter(s) and the MT look like they need heals then they, being in the kite group, are better serving the raid healing their group. Obviously if the kiters don't need a hand, then they are free to heal the MT / other people in their ETW, priority being MT / other healers / CC / MA. If you don't have a lot of healers on the MT, or the MT order isn't deep, or the MT is spiking hard, or you have other kiters who can pick things up if need be, then yeah, MT takes triage priority then.
The answer to this is quite fluid with a large number of variables. It depends on the skill of the rest of the participants, the mechanics of the event and the strategy used for execution and how much you trust everyone to do their part. The fact you are looking for healing opportunities outside your group already puts you ahead of a frighteningly large number of your contemporaries. In an ideal setting it looks something like this - yourself, the main tank, secondary main tanks (multi boss), off tanks, people with critical assignments (such as CC/clicks), rampage tank, other healers, your group, other groups. However, that is a long laundry list of healing demands. So it then is really a matter of communication to cover all of the needs of the raid. In my raids, I like to give people assignments, so I am not allowing them the total flexibility to pick where to focus. Ideally I try to break down the healing load such that each person is responsible for 1 set of tanks/specialty assignment, and their own group. If there is only one boss, then the main tank line is obviously the most important. Again, I like assignments so people know where to focus their efforts. It also shows where weaknesses are better, rather than having 10 free flowing healers doing whatever strikes their fancy. If their assignments is not overly demanding, I will find out and assign those tasks to other people and allow more healers to DPS/other stuff. Once the need is met with reasonable redundancy for the /stupid that happens I don't care nearly as much about what they are doing. Generally, most guilds will have 3-4 tank groups. This lends easily to a MT group, a secondary tank group, and an offtank/kiting group. Most guilds will double or triple healing in these groups depending on the force/event. I then assign DPS group healers to support the extra needs of those tanking groups. I try to split them such I have 1 of each class healing when possible for debuffs/buffing etc, try to keep things "in-house," so to speak. So on the more divergent events where healing focus is majorly split, the MT/Second Tank likes will only get 5 healers each consisting of the 2 in group, and 3 dps group healers. Kiting/Off tanking usually have to be more or less self sufficient (again depends on the event). Assigned rezzer/rebuffer usually comes from a secondary/off tank healer, or if a cleric is in a DPS group they sometimes get that assignment. The main things to remember: 1. There is a difference to having taken damage, and being in immediate danger. Work in healing for incidental damage, but you can't have ALL the healers stop to heal their group immediately when a large AE lands. It will result in tank deaths. 2. Know your players and how they do things. Some players are just weaker contributors, so plan to fill those short comings any way you can within reason. You may have to assign more healers to a single assignment because you can't trust that the 1 person will get the job done. 3. When things go to down hill, communicate more, not less. "I'm doing rezzes and rebuffs! Keep the heals flowing!" Or, "Healer_02, please do XYZ." Hybrids are entirely capable of healing, use them if necessary. (I can main heal groups just fine in T1/T2 TDS with my ranger as only healer, I just have to be careful of multi-tanking situations/heavy ae's and curing, anyone who says otherwise is only limiting their own play, though I have not tried to main heal T3 yet). I strongly recommend healers have a channel, or join the tanking channel. Raiding involves communicating, people should expect it. So in conclusion to my rambling! Heal the most critical role first (preferably by assignment), while covering your group healing. Sometimes group members have to die so you can do the more important thing, but if you are having to make that call consistently, it means there is a shortfall that needs fixed. You should be able to trust your healing team enough that pulling away to heal your group will not result in tank deaths.
Always remember in healing order Roxx: Sojero > MT > everyone else! but seriously, if you are the only healer in your group, and your in a kiting/off tanking group, your main job is to your group and then MT, if you are a second healer, then MT first then backup heal your group if the main group healer is down or falling behind. To put some information to some of the variables we use 3-4 sk in a group to keep epic up at all times to make healing that much easier, and the healer in the group never really has to heal us unless we are tanking something, ae dmg etc is healed via lifetaps + epic. We usually try to have a shm in the sk group because that's really all thats needed to keep us up, but sometimes a cleric when a shm is needed for a dps group. We don't usually field enough healers to have more than one in each group then 2-3 in MT group. I personally love when they do 2 war, 2 clr, brd, and pally in the MT group, 3 sk, shm, pally, brd in the off tank/kiting group, but we don't usually have enough pallies or bards to do that. For divine rez, don't ever use it on a MT, save that for yourself if you get a call, or another cleric, or if a mez needed raid a chanter. MT can use rest and get enough endo back to do their job.
Alot of love for the MTs, obviously, but if there's already 3-4 cleric watching a single MT, adding a 5th or 6th is pretty much wasted... there's surely someonelse to watch.
Good thread. As a new raid cleric I've been frustrated to no end trying to figure who exactly to heal. It sometimes seems and is obvious, but more often than not it isn't. Thanks for the helpful information. Thanks to you whom have posted your knowledge in other threads in the past!
your target priorities are simple and this order never changes: 1. any warrior running a heal parse 2. any iksar warrior 3. other iksar 4. other warriors tanking a BIG BAD BOSS unless a. an iksar warrior is next in the lineup b. tanking warrior has bid on a dps weapon or asked for a dps parse at any time in the last 3 months 5. gnomes 6. everyone else 7. shadowknights (easier to res them and let them pout so real tanks can do work) be sure you touch base with your top burst dps. not the top, but the second or third individual. inform them that for help with progression tasks, you will glady divine aura the top dps'er the instant the burn is called. if you shuffle this ability around, you will make a lot of friends.
