Thank for your analysis. I really like the focus system as well, it makes really good sense in general, especially with the arguments you bring forward. However, it is still a mystery why they would break backwards compatibility, so that when I upgrade, older versions of the spell become unfocused. For a mage, a usage scenario could be that I hit 110, get the new spell and the new AA, but am unable to keep up the mana generation needed to maintain my preferred playstyle of using as many swarm pets as I like. (I experienced something similar when leveling up). If that is the case, I would like to go back to my previous pet, and at least spam that. That is not viable with the new AA, so the risk mitigation for me is to avoid the rank 11 of synergy. (Mana already becoming an issue on rapid xp-grinds with very fast kills, with lvl 105 spells). It feels a little bit like I am not getting my full worth of the expansion; a hint of regret. Even worse for wizards, not getting Synergy 11 on my Wizard at all. A real regret for the people who got the rank 11, and are unable to go back. I think this is bad design, and I therefore try to understand what the overall game design idea is...
I had reported this as a bug for paladin synergy at launch. For knights it's obviously poorly thought out, but recoverable at level 110 and purchasing 200 AA rank 11. The simplest fix I think is to lower the level requirement of rank 11 to level 108 when knights get Spurn. This way at level 108 you get Spurn and spend 200 AA and you have your upgrade. At things stand it's a downgrade to use Spurn for 2 levels (which no one would do) otherwise. There is related problem with Repel/Spurn focus not working together so ultimately knights must wait until they have all 4 things maxed before they can use Spurn. Sounds like every class has similar issues and the devs should review and fix all the synergies and related focus AA to provide sensible upgrade paths.
Good input, however for mages, our swarm pet RS-line share timer for the different spell levels. So this would not hold true for mages, the number of triggerings would be unchanged.
I think that's pretty simple - they don't want you to chain multiple spells that proc synergy. That's not an issue for the mage version, since Reckless and Remorselss Servant share a timer. However some other classes have synergies that proc off of spells that don't share a timer. Think of Beguiler's Syenrgy, for example - Enchanters often chain Mindslash and Mindsunder in the same lineup. I don't think Dzarn wanted to effectively double the rate at which they could proc synergy, so it does not apply retroactively. The Wizard synergy is a more complicated example because it was tied to a spell that wasn't upgraded. I think it should have been left as is (on Vortex), or had its base damage upgraded more to compensate. As far as your particular example, there isn't a good reason to use level Remorseless Servant over Reckless Servant once you've purchased the requisite AAs. While the latter costs more mana, the increase in damage is higher than the increase in mana cost. In other words, the new spell is more efficient. The same goes for pretty much every spell - the level 110 versions are at least slightly more efficient. You might keep down your mana usage using older spells, but overall you're actually doing damage less efficiently with that mana. Now is the way he did it perfect? No, ideally people should have the option between which spell will proc synergy rank 11. Perhaps a toggle could be introduced to swap between the old and new spell. That said, simply applying it retroactively would disproportionately favor classes with unlinked synergy-proccing spells.
Higher efficiency for the damage is a very good point. I am not cured of my OOM-fobia just yet, I would have to see that I can actually utilize the imcrease in dps, in the grouping that I am in. My mage is the one most wanting more mana already in xp-grinds with very fast pulls, making that toon a bottleneck already, and that is with 105-spells (holding a bit back on my toons, need more AA, and enjoying EoK). Thus I need to be able to throtle mana consumption down on my mage, at the cost of dps. Rains and magic nukes might get a comeback, and that would perhaps not be the worst thing that could happen... imagine that...
Haeh? Ever tried to cast the level 104 and 109 syllables right after each other? You can't, they share a cooldown. Already, with nothing added to it - standard. Granted, in the case of wizards that would perhaps be different then - i cannot imagine they'd make two different spell lines share a timer (though it's not unheard of i think, when i think back to some druid or ranger fire/cold spells where, unless i'm mistaken again, you have to choose one or the other). And for my WAR, the trigger did not even change at all - was shield break before and is shield beak now. We MIGHT have the problem you describe for those synergies that - for some reason i do not understand - shift the focus, like the wizard's that prompted this thread's twist. I understand that we need to "rebuy" what we already have to make it work with the new spell-levels. The explanation given by Fanra in the 10th post makes sense to me. What doesn't though is that the previous triggers stop working. Nor why the synergy shifts it's focus.
My next sentence after the one you quoted said that some classes already have a timer linking the two levels of spells. After looking through the AAs on raidloot.com and checking for timers for Allakhazam, I should have said, "most classes already have a timer." I found 4 classes where it looks like there's no timer linking the spells. So I still think this is the reason they made rank 11 of synergy trigger only off a new spell (for most classes). I hope they won't retroactively make timers for those classes that don't already have one because it will have a negative impact that can never be overcome. The negative impact of needing to spend 200 AA can be overcome. That's interesting what you say about the warrior. According to raidloot.com, warrior's synergy ranks 1-10 trigger off shield topple and shield break, but rank 11 only triggers off shield break. I'm not sure why the first 10 ranks would trigger from shield topple since the AAs require level 105, shield break is level 104, and shield break shares a timer with shield topple. But since shield break works on all ranks for warrior's synergy, and because they have no upgrade to shield break, it means they are unaffected by the discussion in this thread; buying rank 11 is truly an upgrade, and having to wait to buy rank 11 is not a hindrance.
It is my impression that wizard synergy 11 overwrites and blocks synergy 10. At least I got messages the were indicating that on last raid, while I was grouped with a wizard that had accidentally bought the rank 11 synergy.
Good work, thanks for the research. Wizards being one, which where the other 3? Btw, I don’t mind the 200 AA rank 11, I think it is fine that you need it to focus the new spell, since the focus itself did not get an upgrade.
It looked like wizard, enchanter, necromancer, and shaman are the classes where the spells that trigger rk 10 (and lower) and 11 are unlinked. Of those 4, I only have an enchanter and wizard that are high enough level to test and confirm, and I won't buy rank 11 on the wizard I may be misinterpreting the last part of your post, though. It looks like rank 11 triggers a more powerful effect than rank 10 for all classes. For instance, the enchanter synergy adds 40% to fire, ice, and magic DDs or DoTs for the first 10 ranks. Rank 11 brings that up to 45% If DBG wants to make rank 11 work with the old and new spell for those classes with linked spells, I think that would be a good change. But if they wanted to also add timers to the triggering spells for the four classes I mentioned, it would be a terrible change, specifically for enchanters and wizards (I don't know about the other two).
