This issue is mainly an Enchanter/raider issue but it has been going on since the introduction of both spell lines (Alendar and Geomantra) and it makes 0 sense. I'll start by posting the basic spell info for the current highest version of each: and Now, at first glance you may think, gee, it's 30% vs 20%, duh! Sure... and then we see the total mitigated, ~12k vs ~33k Lets just take an average level nuke - 40k for example, without a limit, Geo would absorb 12k whereas Legion would get 8k. However, Geomantra would then drop whereas Legion still has ~25k damage left (or 3 more 40k nukes that get mitigated). Technically, you could recast Geomantra in between every nuke, and you'd be slightly better off but that's kindof silly. Now, take the same scenario but lets use a raid-level nuke, maybe 80k. Geomantra will be completely expended but block only 12k still, *however*, Legion without a limit would absorb 64k, but given the cap, would absorb it's max, 33k. On raids, or even for group named, I cast Glyph Spray (no stacking issues) and Legion (issues) as often as possible, so it's not a rare occurrence that only happens once every 2 weeks. A "simple" fix would be to change the stacking based on damage mitigated, instead of the % of incoming damage. Now, "simple" in EQ could potentially be complicated and if that's the case, change Geomantra to 20% instead of 30% so Legion would override. In current content that would make almost no difference. So... support? thoughts? opposition? I'm at a point where I'm thinking of going on a bug report / dev PM / etc. frenzy to get this issue addressed.
Yep...was a time when i told the Raid to not use/click off Geomantra, on events where we expected heavier DDs. Now hardly anyone uses it, and one of the things that we coordinate on our Raids now are mgb Legions (and GSprays). I always thought Geomantra is almost worthless for raiding, ~40k nukes like in your example are just not dangerous. It's also rather easy to have the Chanter who mgb'ed last watch for the worn off spam, and ask the next guy to mgb. Having many people watch their own Geomantra...just a distraction.
I'm CL for Enchanters in my guild and I pretty much organize a similar setup. I usually do the initial buff of LDD/LDOT/GS before engage. When I see LDD or LDOT is down, I'll MGB whichever. I'll call for the next Ench to drop GS when that's down. Once my MGB'd guard is down we go down the line in a staggered fashion. Almost all Enchanter MGBs go to Legion buffs. Likewise, I've "trained" most of the raidforce to dump Geo from their self-buff lineup. Of course, there are always those that are clueless or resistant (for no logical reason). While someone could argue this is also a convenience factor, given the examples above, I think it is clearly a logic factor.
1. This is an issue for raids only. 2. Glyph Spray is already an AE. No need to blow MGB on it, unless maybe it buys you increased range?
I didn't say anywhere about using Glyph Spray in conjunction with MGB, only Legion. While it affects raiders the most, you can't say that there is no benefit to groupers when you look at the current DD damage several named in ROF/COTF put out. It actually has a larger impact on groupers since they will not have as high of a Geomantra click as raiders whereas the difference between Rk 2 and Rk 3 Legion is very small.
I don't think i've ever used geomantra since SoF. Stacking issues aside, clicky has always been pretty subpar, extremely situational, and for the most part useless.
Yeah, I don't think the issue has ever been Enchanters personally using Geomantra but moreso the mainstream sheep. Most clickies and procs are woefully underpowered in the current state of the game which is why I think it's a bit ridiculous this(stacking issue) is even happening... especially when Legion: DD still costs 10 plat . At least we received some reprieve with L-DoT not consuming a gem!
ive stopped using Geo , since the death bloom nerf . besides Shield of fate is way better and dont drain mana regen, and Enchanters legion and glyhp spray rk 3 is nicer also
Your first point is just simply wrong. Your second point, I have no idea what point you are trying to make, as that is not really contested anywhere in the thread. While it is nice to have this buff during raids, in general raids have higher geared toons with lots of healing surrounding them. A pure grouper doing group content has much more to gain by using this buff against challenging group names. But, due to ignorance or just plain mistaken belief that EQ's stacking system will give them the best possible buff, many use Geomantra over enchanter's spell shield ( and don't even get me started on the wizard self-only crappy spell shield ). This was brought up once recently, but it could stand another look. You have an error in your calculation, but you are making the point I have long made about these spell lines. While Geomantra says 30%, in the example above ( and in most actual events, group or raid, that are level appropriate ) in only absorbs about 15% before it is expended, leaving you to get hit for 68K. With the 3 minute recast on Geomantra, you will not be able to keep it up. Meanwhile, Legion will absorb its 20% twice ( 16k per nuke ) with the hits being 64K. Legion has a 12 second recast, so can be recast on nuke heavy names or raid events ( I kept xolok/umbral up on my group during the Shard's Landing event ). In short, while Geomantra says 30%, it will have to be a rather weak nuke for the level of Geomantra in order to actually get 30%. The % is going to be much lower as Geomantra will hit its cap much sooner and be expended. Having enchanter's Legion line overwrite Geomantra would save a lot of headaches in both group and raid settings. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Geo 17 isn't in game yet, that's just a placeholder for the next time it is upgraded. Geo 16 is what currently drops in CotF tier 1.
It wasn't an error in the calculation. It absorbs "30%" of incoming spell damage with an absorption cap of ~12k. No, it will not mitigate 30% of an 80k nuke, but rather the 12k comes out to be 15% like you said. The stacking issue is due to the "% mitigated" despite the inferior protection, which you detailed. I did some more "poking" and was given the response that 'it would be noted to be looked into'. That of course is no guarantee about anything but it is better than nothing. So, it might be worth people doing some /feedback or PMing to support the issue.
Legion without a limit would absorb 64k, but given the cap, would absorb it's max, 33k. That's the part I meant. It absorbs 16K ( 80k x 20% ), 64K is the amount you get hit for from an 80k nuke. Looks like you did the calculation but posted the numbers backwards. In this scenario, it would absorb 2 nukes before needing to be refreshed.
Discontinue geomantra or let it stack with legion of ________. I'm an enchanter and I approve this message.
I'm necro rezzing this thread on purpose to re-emphasize the extreme lack of logic about this issue. Our new Lv. 104 DD spellshield, Legion of Lucem, which gives 20% mitigation up to 50k damage is overwritten by Geomantra THREE. Geo III is 30% up to 1k damage. Geo III will block or drop our new spellshield. I didn't have a Geo I or II item handy so that's why I just used this item I picked up in the bazaar. Geomantra III first appears around the SOF expansion for reference. I'm not a coder or dev obviously but to me looking at spell data it seems the issue may be the "30%" mitigation compared to our 20%. Anyone with a brain would probably agree that they rather have 50k at 20% versus 30% at 1k. Obviously current geomantra is not this low, it's at 30% up to 12k. I think it's still apparent that this is vastly inferior. I shouldn't have to make a huge concerted effort to scold people for using an effect on an item they just haphazardly added to their click-item hotkeys. Is the effect useful? Yes- when Enchanter spellshield is on the refresh or unavailable. Does this mean it should block a Lv 104 spell? Hell no. I am making it my personal mission to continue to pursue this issue until it's either fixed or I get silenced for being annoying about it Please post here, /feedback, /bug, respectfully talk to devs, etc. An item click like this should never be "more powerful" than a PC spell which is what the current stacking portrays despite it not being true. Well /rant done I suppose
Geomantra is such a slap in the face to enchanters not because that other people use it, that's fine but ours SHOULD OVERWRITE IT when we cast ours. Keep up the good fight.
I've almost given up all hope for humanity at this point in regards to Geomantra. If people want to be ignorant then they can go for it! I still think this is the stupidest stacking issue in the world and how it has managed to survive from GoD to now... I have no clue. One day...
I still roll with Geo most of the time, but that's just because we're are very fortunate if we have 2 enchanters on a raid night.
