Something's Gotta Give

I think he's referring to nukes/rains as opposed to DoTs being more effective when mobs die so fast that a DoT might only get a couple of ticks off before the mob is dead.

Rogues for sure. Pre Kunark they are very weak. Post Kunark they get a bit better but won't actually be better than 1 of the 2000 monks lfg.

I know what he's referring to. Rains will rarely be used in a group setting. 90% of the time the next mob is mezzed and getting debuffed. In a spot like Kennels, especially when you first get there at like 54, mobs just don't die in two ticks of venom. Even with high dps double charm groups. It just doesn't happen unless I'm being super slow about it.

Over a short period of time, I would imagine a druid could use nukes with a pet and beat out a necro if the druid has a clarity. After 5+ hours of continuous non stop pulling, I promise you the necro is winning.

In a group you need several things.
First the Holy Trinity

Tanking
CC
Heals

Typically tanking - war/sk/pal
CC chanter (who will charm)
Heals - cleric every time as clerics rez.

Then you have slows - typically shammy, who can cover as secondary heals and buffs.
Snares - Necro, ranger or SK if sk is tanking)
Puller - monk
last slot... typically non rogue dps.

Really druids are angling for the secondary heal/snares type of slot. They don't have mana for primary heals, and they're not top tier dps so you'll always be secondary to a shammy.

Now if you really want hard luck stories in lfg, play a rogue. They have zero utility so they're fighting for the last dps slot along with all the other dps. Groups don't like them because of the percieved pick pocket drain on loot, so they're always last choice unless a door needs opened. The only groups rogues get are typically ones that they make themselves, and they can't even solo while doing that .

Chanter can also slow, if you are running the trinity get a bard who will outpull a monk without breaking a sweat, and 2 dps. Bard also has aoe slow+snare for when the chanter is first locking pulls down, and if the bard is good the mobs are staggering into camp

See? Min/maxing powergamers lol

I'm weird because I don't mind having a bard cover the role of puller, CC, and slow, freeing up room for 3 people to join my group of whatever class/role is available. If we don't have a rez, oh well, chances are there's a group close by that has a cleric willing to make a couple hundred plat to get us back up and running.

Even better, have skilled players that can handle bad situations, or a druid as your healer or utility that will succor in the event of a nasty pull.

The issue with bard as your primary cc is, until luclin can only mez up to 55, where chanters can mez up to 61.

I have seen bards do incredible things, espdcially pop onwards with fade and mez. Things that monks only wish they could pull off.

Also when bards are primary cc they arent really playing any other songs especially its 3+ extra.

But yah, people are so crazy about the min max, epic rogues do really good damage. Wizards can turn that 4 pull into 2 mobs really quick. Druids are great behind a competent player. Etc etc. In the time a group sits there trying to make itself perfect they could have been exping if they just filled.

I honestly think there's only 2 classes required to make a great exp group. Chanter and Cleric.

Chanter: Charm dps + slows + long mez + aoe stuns + mana regen for the entire group all wrapped up into one class. It's just too strong at this point to pass up.

Cleric: CH + decent rez. Pretty much comes down to that. Any charmed pet is likely going to be tanking half the time if not more, and letting the pet get down to like 20% then ching is just too efficient.

Everything else is pretty negotiable.

Good point. Lull is effective in Kunark, and Bards can still take a punch giving someone time to root park an add if it can't be mezzed by the bard (if the bard can generate the aggro to keep it occupied for a few seconds. I'm still salty about the bard aggro nerf).

Skilled play trumps a perfect group comp every time.

8-10 hour grind sessions on Coirnav with my 3 box crew (SK, bard, druid) and my friends 3 box monk, cleric, shammy, with the monk pulling 8 mobs at a time in Velks, the shaman slowing them all and the SK peeling them off the shammy one at a time and cycling through to keep aggro on all 8, while the bard is assisting the monk to kill the MA target. The bard and druid providing silly levels of DS and regen, who needs CC anyway?

When the monk says over discord, "This is a lot of merbs..." after pulling 8 all day long and you start to sweat and you put the mouse over the succor gem and wait...

Get a pair of jboots or instant click of your choice and spam it as you bring the mobs in, think you will be pleased with the results.

I'll give that a shot on Aradune. On Coirnav, I went back to Kael and got my bard a BoC and slapped a DoN aggro aug in it just so he could tank a little bit when I switch out the SK for another box just for funsies (With a druid healer! Stop telling me druids suck or that bards cant tank, haters!).

Had a level 57 Druid in a group in Chardok, would only melee with a cutting sickle and occasionally cast group buffs.

And Druids wonder why nobody wants them in groups.

What's wrong with a melee druid?

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with druids as far as how useful the class is, but it feels like a disproportionate number of bad experiences I've had with clueless players have been with druids... like the class attracts some of the wrong people. This includes but is not exclusive to a druid who let the tank die so they could port someone, and a druid who refused to heal the tank in a raid because he just assumed there MUST be tons of healers in the raid when he was actually only 1 of 2... very weird bystander effect.

But good druids are worth a lot! I've also had good experiences with druids who spread their nice buffs, heal as needed and contribute to DPS when they have high mana.