Sneak Attack - Rogue Disciplines

Discussion in 'Melee' started by tuttles, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. tuttles Augur

    https://dgcissuetracker.com/browse/EQ-1646

    YOU TAKE CAREFUL AIM AT YOUR OPPONENT, CAUSING YOUR NEXT BACKSTAB TO NEVER MISS AND CAUSE GREATER DAMAGE.
    YOU MAY ONLY PREPARE FOR A SNEAK ATTACK AFTER BEING HIDDEN FOR A FEW SECONDS. ONCE VISIBLE YOU MUST ATTACK QUICKLY OR ELSE LOSE YOUR ADVANTAGE.

    I propose that this hide requirement for activation of these rogue disciplines be removed, the lengthy hide requirement makes these disciplines rarely usable and with very little benefit or significance. Which is really quite sad for one of our more commonly given disciplines
    Without the hide requirement i feel they would get significant usage in almost every battle, and would also give rogues more interactive combat. The large endurance cost is a bit high but would prevent a rogue from overusing the discipline towards imbalance

    1.It could be an AA purchase during pop/ldon/gates to remove the hide-requirement
    2. Or alternatively the hide requirement could be changed to be triggered by a successful 'rogue evade' during combat.
    Disciplines Suggested for Change:
    20: Sneak Attack
    52: Thief's Vengeance
    63: Assassin's Strike
    65: Kyv Strike
    65: Ancient Chaos Strike
    69: Daggerfall
    70: Razor Arc
    80: Swiftblade I,II,III
    85: Daggerlunge I,II,III
    90: Daggerswipe I,II,III
    95: Daggerstrike I,II,III
    98: Knifeplay I,II,III
    100: Daggerthrust I,II,II
    105: Daggergash I,II,III


    Additional tuning (dmg mods, reuse timer, endurance cost) might be necessary... but gotta start somewhere
  2. smash Augur

    But it is not in line with what it is. A surprise attack that is most effective when it is a surprise.

    Lets say i go and stand behind you juggling with a dagger smeared with venom, i am sure you would be standing nerveous and more attentive, giving you bigger chance to avoid it, than when i stand in a shadow coming with surprise.

    And basically if it should work like you suggest, then it go from a special attack to a not special attack that can be used anywhere/anytime, then dame should like be downed by 50% or more.

    And you change rogues to have no special attacks beside poison.
    Fenthen likes this.
  3. tuttles Augur

    screw the roleplay aspect of a sneak attack, make it a workable+effective ability, first and foremost

    if they made it off evade, then it does fit precious roleplay ...momentarily duck away from combat ->sneak attack

    rogues get screwed with these disciplines that require us being for for 3+ seconds. the damage they currently does even with the sneak makes it a total waste of time... and if they did 'remove the hide' it uses ~8% endurance pool, to basically make your next backstab not miss and have a higher damage spread (not a guaranteed huge hit, but a guaranteed hit, with an improved chance to hit harder)

    they are currently anything BUT a 'special attack' ...they are currently near worthless skills in their current state
  4. Phrovo1 Augur

    yes, let's also make berserker and ranger openers usable when they're in combat
  5. mackal Augur

    They are openers. They have to force you to not be able to use them in combat, because they are openers. Having to hide for 4 seconds before using them makes it too much of a DPS drop to bother trying to weave them in combat. It works as intended! The only downside is that if it's multiple targets, 4 seconds is too long, but if they pulling is spaced out enough, hiding/sneaking after the mob is dead should be good enough.
  6. fransisco Augur

    Just be glad your opener is better than rangers - it doesn't take up a spell slot.
  7. Sissruukk Rogue One

    My only "complaint" is that this line is on the same timer as the barrage line (I believe that is it, not at home to look). So, if I open with this, I have to wait to do my barrage line to get my buff from that for the extra damage. So, not really a complaint, just a personal annoyance.
  8. svann Augur

    I dont mind the hide part, but I think it should be an ability instead of a discipline. If I have any discipline still running it cant be used.
  9. Bornag_001 New Member

    Not sure I saw it in this thread- It would be nice to eliminate "Hide" and make the Sneak Attack from "Sneak". It seems otherwise your puller or aggro-tank needs to move the mob right beside you.... Or did I miss something?
  10. Szilent Augur

    You missed that rogues can move with Hide on?
  11. Roffles New Member

    I just wanna learn how to DPS as a rogue in groups vs in raids. I wouldn't mind doing both. I really don't know how I suck so bad lol.
    Barrage (battery line), Hack (bleed line) , Twisted Shank AA, Jugular Hack (jugular line), Hidden Blade, and I even use Disassociative Puncture to drop hate and then do a little more damage.
    Named mobs I use Rogue's Fury, Spire Rake, Reefwater Blade, and Pinpoint Flaws as well.

    I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong, however, I'm only 105 and group geared. I also started the class without knowing anything about it come from playing a monk. Shroud of Stealth is quite nice...but I kinda miss being a monk lol.
  12. Szilent Augur

    in short, yes.

    /autoskill Backstab

    Keep Thief's Vision on. With AAs this will be a 10 minute buff. You can target other groups to buff them also.

    One spam button for attacks (used 105 names here, upgrade as upgrades are available):
    Barrage
    Hidden Blade
    Disassociative Puncture
    Shadow-Hunter's Dagger
    (can add Disorientation. this adds no dps but helps weak tanks with their agro)
    (and can add Hide. this adds no dps but spamming keeps you on the bottom of the agro list)
    (in a raid, this button might include Poisonous Alliance. might not, if one finds Alliance being wasted on add mobs too much)

    One "sometimes" button for dots (start of every group battle. not at all versus raid boss):
    Ligament Slice
    Hack
    Jugular Hack
    Twisted Shank
    Pinpoint Deficiencies
    (Twisted & Pinpoint will be used vs raid boss, but coordinated on their own with other rogues cooperatively to achieve full coverage. not on a social with low-value dots)

    and then a full uptime rotation of disciplines in a 10 minute cycle, something like this. This is way different than a monk "sometimes do things" disc strat:
    [IMG]
    rogues should always have a disc active
  13. Mindra New Member

    As Sissruukk pointed out: because sneak attacks share a timer with barrage line, I view it as an either/or thing.

    First, habitually hit hide/sneak after every mob death (when the tank is not literally engaged with the next target before the current target is dead). You're a rogue, you should be habitually hide and sneaking always anyway....
    Then when the pulling pace allows you can eke out a few more sneak attacks in a given time period.

    If the timing doesn't allow for a sneak attack, then use your barrage line; frankly I think having the choice just gives things a bit of flavour; sneak attack may have the potential to do more damage than barrage, but it doesn't always hit for above normal damages, so you're kind of at the mercy of the RNG with it.

    I say this every few years: If we're going to get a dps boost, what I'd really like to see is either quad backstab (real backstabs, not MS), or a passive permanent ability that allows us to "proc" a backstab during normal autoattack, maybe with full chances of double/tripple/ms, depending on the balance.
    I think either one of those things will give the developers a very easy way to boost our dps in a tunable way, without giving us more button mashing than we already suffer.

    That is all.

    -Mindra Skylarker of the Iksarian Broods, Bertoxx.
  14. Poyzen Frawg Augur

    This made me LOL
    Winnowyl likes this.
  15. Roffles New Member

    Thank you, this has helped me!
    Szilent likes this.
  16. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.


    Rogues can only move with hide on if they have sneak on as well. Without sneak, 'you have moved and are no longer hidden'.
    Sissruukk likes this.

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