Shinning Bastion spell line

Discussion in 'Priests' started by sojero, May 22, 2014.

  1. sojero One hit wonder

    To keep this out of the BP click thread:

    What are people thoughts on the Shinning Bastion line? I personally feel it is an amazing line even after the tuning of it to make it non usable to swarm with. I feel that it procs enough to be useful (even 1 proc is better than none) enough to keep memed.

    In group I use it with retort and heals over time so I can help dps with my cleric and just cast the reflective heal/nukes.

    In raid if you have 1 or 2 clerics with it memed and keeping it on all the tanks, it helps, that way all the clerics don't have to have it memed.

  2. Grelthur Elder

    I always make sure shiny/AI/DI is set on all tanks prior to engage. With a few rare exceptions, shiny doesn't fade until the timer, at which time I will see about getting another one out if possible. Even if the spell isn't as effective as it was prior to the counters being added, I am of the opinion that any mitigation is better than no mitigation. As far as it fading from hits, I don't think I've seen that happen on a tank unless they make a fairly large pull. If it does happen to fade, it takes very little time to swap it and cast it then back to whatever spell you had there if you don't leave it on your spell bar.


    Read Fenthen's post and that reminded me. I kind of switched gears mid post. In GROUP content I switch it out. In RAID I always have it on my spell bar because of rezzes.
  3. Fenthen aka Rath

    All Clerics should keep this memmed - since there's no group version, and due to its short duration, you need to recast it rather often, especially as part of the re-buffing a tank you just ressed.
  4. Roxxanna Augur

    Next to useless, does it help? of coarse, but nowhere near enough to sacrifice a spell slot. Id use it if they did the following: remove counters, return it to a single buff slot, and instead of a # heal amount make it a %heal amount so it scales. I don't swarm unless I'm farming for trade skill drops, and then I don't need shining, or anything else except normal buffs. Pre lvl 92, I used to melee dps and nuke, but at higher levels, it's not my job, I leave it to those who are designed to do it. My job is to keep them alive, and sadly, at least at this level, shining doesn't really help. On a raid, absolutely some clerics should have it gemmed, but in group, there are other tools more worthy of my time.
  5. sojero One hit wonder

    Very curious what other tools are better, this is not a jab, this is true curiosity. On my cleric I run this spell lineup for group:

    Graceful Remedy
    Virtuous Contravention
    Virtuous Intervention
    Fraught Renewal
    Syllable of Renewal
    Reverent Elixir
    Fifteenth Emblem
    Ward of Certitude
    Shining Bastion
    Olsif's Retort

    for raid:

    Graceful Remedy
    Virtuous Contravention
    Virtuous Intervention
    Fraught Renewal
    Syllable of Renewal
    group Elixir or another large group hal
    Fifteenth Emblem
    Ward of Certitude
    Shining Bastion
    95 frenzy or light depending on length of fight, and needs of healing
  6. Roxxanna Augur

    I don't take it as a jab, we are all here for the same purpose, to become better healers. Off the top of my head, I believe my lineup is as follows:

    Best group heal
    Largest single target heal
    Fastest single target heal
    Bastion of Vie
    Fastest stun
    Slower stun (different cool downs)
    Best retort
    Divine interposition
    Issuance of grace
    Best nuke
    Twin heal proc nuke

    Changes a little depending on what kind of group I'm in, like perhaps marks for pulling
  7. sojero One hit wonder

    thoughts and questions on some of them:

    Best group heal
    Largest single target heal
    Fastest single target heal
    Bastion of Vie <-- why not put shinning here if you are keeping it up?
    Fastest stun <-- I dont use stuns as a cleric, do you find them helpful on much content? but that might also be because my wife plays a pally.
    Slower stun (different cool downs)
    Best retort
    Divine interposition
    Issuance of grace <-- dont really use this spell, what are your thoughts about it
    Best nuke
    Twin heal proc nuke <-- don't use this one as its high mana and don't need the twincast in group game. I guess my closest is the other reflective nuke.

    I understand group composition makes a huge difference to what spells you will use, also if group or raid geared players.
  8. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    Shining Bastion is the most important cleric buff in the game. For ~3 seconds of effort you give another PC a 10% mitigation buff that additionally allows them to proc a heal (amazing because you get a little help healing for 0 extra effort, i.e. while you are casting other spells) and stun (aggro bonus). It lasts about 10 minutes. If the tank is tanking multiple mobs, SB *might* fade early, in which case the tank got a maximum 72 * 2681 = 200,000 HP of healing, over a long period of time, for 3 seconds of effort. That is more than we get for any other spell.

    Even in group content this spell is invaluable. The reduction in damage and assistance with healing frees us up to do other things (like crappy DPS, making fun of group members and AFK to watch youtube).

    IoG is super good also - lets do some math:
    IoG plants a "ward" that lasts 2 minutes. Every 6 seconds it heals everyone in the area for 2615 HP. In a vacuum, that's 2615 * 20 ticks = 52300 HP (max) per person. In a group, that's over a 300k HP heal. In a raid, it's over 3 million HP in potential healing (not including pets).

    Of course, not everyone is going to be healed for 2.5k on a SB proc (it's real strength is the 10% mitigation), or from IoG (the entire raid is not always stationary, in range of the ward, or taking damage). These abilities are powerful because you can use them ahead of time to alleviate some of your groups' healing needs.
    Kreacher likes this.
  9. Roxxanna Augur

    Bastion of Vie: I considered putting shining here, although I sometimes put ward of certitude here. May consider again after I look at the numbers.

    Stuns: I never leave home without them, the reverse healing is enough to keep tank near full health in most level appropriate grouping. And it usually gives 1:00 damage mitigation buff.

    Issuance of grace: A group favorite, they love seeing the epic shield spinning in front of them, the ae heal over time is great for keeping members who are just taking a little dog here and there topped up without wasting additional cast time. I sometimes switch this out, but it always get requested back in.

    Twin heal proc nuke: I ALWAYS have this up and counting down in my song window, some people go with the 15 emblem type for the below 35% bonus, but I prefer this, I can twin proc a heal crit into the 150k range at the moment. And if it's an emergency and I need to recast my twin heal proc, I will hit the instant burst of life and it's group counterpart first, which gives me enought time to cast the twin proc then my heal, the extra mana usage has never been a problem, especially with quiet miracle on deck.
  10. sojero One hit wonder

    Interesting so IoG can hit the entire raid? I will have to start keeping this up. this would be awesome on raids such as PoS when you do the pillar with dark luclin. Put one in front and one behind.
  11. sojero One hit wonder

    In group game I use ward over DI because of:
    1) component of DI (I am horrible about rebuying them -- lack on player here)
    2) the cast time on ward is awesome (recast time blows)
    3) rarely do I hit low enough in group game other than named to need DI, and on named ill front load my sk before engage and then DI when one of the discs is dropping to give me time to click another.
  12. dalead Elder

    Well, it depends on what I'm doing, but I think my most used looks like this.

    Group Elixir
    Group Direct

    When not raiding, I switch to Interventions. I rarely use Contraventions. I try to keep Shining on tank at all times.
  13. Nylrem Augur

    Not only can IoG hit the entire raid, they stack, so 5 clerics all casting 2 each at once (using forceful rejuv), and the entire raid receives 26k a tick heals for 20 ticks... throw in celestial regen chains, and that's some incredible AE healage.
    Kreacher likes this.
  14. Mykaylla Augur

    I still use it. It has taken a pretty massive hit though. In a raid setting, you will see a lot less of that hit than in a group or, particularly, solo setting.

    Shining Bastion got hit the way it did largely due to what others can do with it, not because of clerics (though yes, cleric swarming has become more prevalent, it is almost exclusively confined to instances due to the need for lower level lesser-hitting mobs- the tradeoff for not having discs). The hit counter on the heal proc would have been enough. I've ALWAYS hated the way that Ward of Tunare/Decrepit Skin/Reptile were nerfed, and I like it no more on clerics; the stun portion is a considerable part of generating aggro and adding survivability that doesn't actually help you get something dead faster- you can't heal something to death, you can't shining something to death- and now that is on the diminishing curve of the previously mentioned paladin, shadowknight and druid nerfed spells, until it reaches a point where it won't proc at all. You don't see that in raiding, but you do in grouping and soloing. In raids, you have more tanks around to pick things off people, but in groups, if you have adds spawn, they're all going to be on one person, likely as not. Shining now drops when you need it most, which is the opposite of its' previous function- regular vie line, now *that* dropped when you needed it most, particularly pre-HoT tune-up when its' mitigation threshold was extremely low in comparison to content.

    Since it's designed to drop at bad times now, I think I would rather that Bastion of Vie and Shining Bastion got rolled together into Bastion of Shining Unity, with the vie portion of Shining pulled off entirely, and using only the mitigation on Bastion of Vie. Something like:

    [?????/????] Bastion of Shining Unity Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/100
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 1818
    Target: Single
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Casting: 4s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
    Duration: 6s (1 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Cast: Shining Bastion Rk. III
    2: Cast: Bastion of Vie Rk. III

    [34289/4555] Shining Bastion Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/99
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 856
    Target: Single
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
    Duration: 4.5m (45 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 72 Defensive Proc Casts
    7: Add Defensive Proc: Crippling Glare III with 400% Rate Mod
    Text: You are surrounded by shining armor.

    [34180/4510] Bastion of Vie Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/98
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 962
    Target: Single
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Casting: 4s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
    Duration: 72m (720 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Absorb Melee Damage: 10%, Total: 41874
    6: Cast on Rune Fade: Light of Vie III

    Why? Because now you need to use three buffslots to accomplish, mostly, what we used to do with one, and that DOES show on raids- ideally you'd want to have bastion of vie on Ye_Olde_Tank01 in case there is a big spawn and shining defense gets plowed through with a quickness, to buy you time to recast a new shining bastion, which is now two buffslots instead of one. tanks already have to pick and choose due to bufflocking (as do melee for that matter), so spreading it out into more buffs is a step in the wrong direction.
    Roxxanna and Ardin like this.
  15. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone want to trade 10% unlimited mitigation for 9 minutes for ~40k HP of mitigation with a heal upon fading?
  16. Roxxanna Augur

    This.........definitely this.
  17. sojero One hit wonder

    I think because you would get the best of both worlds without having to cast 2 buffs taking up 3 buff slots. The only reason for bastion is the long duration and the heal at the end. you keep it up for when shinning drops you still have the 10%. combining them would help clerics, immensely.
  18. Crystilla Augur

    Personally I also still see value in Shining being used (and it's permanently in my spell bar). EQ has become a game of "adding little things together to become greater than the whole" rather than "1 large great thing". So I'm used to the additive power of several small things.

    To a few others in this thread.

    Sojero - curious why you use chromacrush instead of the 1-level back magic nuke? Do you see a lot of resists? Asking as prior research Mykaylla and others have done suggest not even memming the chromatic line basically (perhaps maybe if you're with a chanter who can boost it but even then magic is better return overall).

    I typically pull for groups so my spell lineup on non named is:

    Fervent renewal
    Glorious Light
    Glorious Remedy
    Shining armor
    single elixir
    group heal + cure
    group elixir
    Highest magic nuke
    ? (blanking on this one)
    Mark reverse DS (for pulling)
  19. sojero One hit wonder

    Yes I use chroma because of the resists, I haven't tried anything different in a while, so maybe I should.

    Agree on the little things. In groups I usually play my SK and we use cleric mercs, tanks seem to be harder to find and as a raid geared SK in group content mercs do fine. I only singly play the cleric in raids when we have lots of tanks and no healers (I don't box on raids if there is any way around it) and I box her when 3 boxing by myself. When 3 boxing I usually run pally or bard, SK, and cleric or shm. If I am playing pally/sk/clr I use 3 caster mercs.

    I try and stack a bunch of little things as well. Skin sk buff, hot from clr, SB, OR, protective from pally, challenge from sk for the extra ac. If I am missing either Shinning or retort I can notice very quickly as my hp starts flux'ing fast, its the combination that makes the huge difference. I use the pally for group heals if needed. I have hotkeys setup to max dps on clr while also healing. Same with the pally. I usually fully concentrate on the SK. I flip to the others every 10 seconds or so to click a hotkey, have 2 set up because of cool downs. If I have a shm friend join and put lassitude line on with shinning and retort then a hot and even on named my lifetaps with those buffs are enough to keep me alive.

    If I get in trouble I usually use the pally to either stun or have a hotkey to target the sk and cast its .3 sec heal and then switch to clr for burst and then manually do a heal, but this is rare.