Royal Scout's Vermillion Saber

Discussion in 'Melee' started by kramer2202, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. kramer2202 Elder

    Any rogue with Royal Scout's Vermillion Saber yet? I am curious how it may parse in offhand versus other cotf piercers as well as the possessed dagger from RoF. Higher Dmg but also slower delay, curious to know how it compares.
  2. Esero Elder

    It's really hard to say because you'd want to parse it under a couple different conditions.

    Most parsing I've done for Sansea, the Barbed Dirk vs. Possessed Dreadstone (still difficult) has yielded results that favor Sansea in offhand (Argin-Hiz class dagger in main) under 'most' conditions, and the conditions where the OH proc is favorable are those that I rarely play under. Also it's difficult to really pin down the DPS increased of Barbed Weapon.

    That said if I get hold of a Saber at some point I'll post my results - my guess would be that under optimum conditions Scouts Vermillion Saber would be superior in offhand.
  3. kramer2202 Elder

    My fault for not mentioning in my original post, but my post was intended to ask when a BARD is not in grp. Obviously with a bard in grp, CotF daggers would out dps Possessed dagger. But curious if without a bard, if the dmg increase in the royal scout's vermillion saber would high enough to out dps the possessed dagger. We typically only have 1 or 2 bards in our raid makeup, so dont always have a bard in grp
  4. Charris Journeyman

    Its best to put the dagger with the highest weapon ratio in main hand that has the highest backstab dmg modifier and the 2nd best weapon ratio in your offhand. If your trying to choose the best weapons available they would go in this order.

    Sekrivitax, Kris of the Sol`Dal -- Weapon Ratio 6.42 with 65 Backstab dmg

    Sansea, the Barbed Dirk -- Weapon Ratio 6.21 with 62 Backstab dmg

    Royal Scout's Vermillion Saber -- Weapon Ratio 6.18 with 65 Backstab dmg

    Possessed Dreadstone Assassin's Knife -- Weapon Ratio 6 with 60 Backstab dmg


    So for mainhand the best choice would be Sekrivitax and for offhand is Sansea if you want the highest dps possible, Bard or not.



    Easiest way to parse this with gamparse is to do a good 10 min parse on a dummy (while just backstabbing) and search your log for text with "is ripped by barbs" and it displays a count:# on the right hand side of gamparse under the log search. Then just add up all the dmg done by your Knife which should be all the attacks with damage dealt in the amounts of 1584, 3643, 5385 and 6177. So do a new log search once you have your "count" of how many procs you had and search for those exact lines of dmg i said above, do a total count of all those as well and they should add up exactly to your count of the search "is ripped by barbs" (now total all those lines of dmg up and divide it by the time to calculate the weapons proc'd dps.) for example in my log i searched individually for those lines of dmg once i had my count and i came up with this.
    i had 121 procs it showed under "count:" when i searched for "is ripped by barbs" and on my calculator i just do the quick math of the following from my individual damage searches.

    1584 - 87 lines of dmg
    3643 - 22 lines of dmg
    5385 - 1 line of dmg
    6177 - 11 lines of dmg
    = 121 total lines of dmg, matches my search for "is ripped by barbs"

    I come up with dmg done from barbed weapon: 291,286 divided by fight time of 705 = 413 dps

    Should be very accurate, in my parse testing the Assassin's Knife i was coming up between 380-420dps on 11 minute parses And the "bard" overhaste on the Knife is very laughable, and nearly un-parseable, its not the overhaste from bards that gives us our big damage boost.

    And also my parses for the barbed weapon were against Luclin in the group mission from the Plane of Shadows mission, just burning on her for 11.5 minutes straight for parsing purposes. Its more accurate this way because real mobs actually resist barbed weapon, so its not skewed against a dummy who never resists.
  5. kramer2202 Elder

    If the 25% overhaste had no affect, why do we want bards in group? So sansea is not the best dps in offhand regardless if there is a bard in grp or not. It certainly is with a bard because of his overhaste song, but without a bard in grp, the 25% proc from the Possessed dagger outdps's sansea.
  6. Charris Journeyman


    this is incorrect, max overhaste in game with chaner haste puts you at 217% haste, with bard haste your at 225%. you dont want a bard in group for that 8% extra overhaste, you want them in the group for their dmg mod and proc aura's, you seriously think the 8 freaking percent overhaste you get from the assassin's knife outweights the better ratio? lol.

    Everyone is welcome to do the parse testing or math associated with figuring out the very simple answer, overhaste of that minimal amount is completely useless and un-parseable and that is NOT where the dps increase from a bard is coming from, at all, its so very VERY minimal, that its probably not even parseable at all.. but any decent melee dps already knows this. so im done i guess. yep.
  7. Ravengloome Augur


    8% haste overhaste during burns is not "unparseable", Especially if your running any kind of Hundred hands effect...
  8. Kadazic New Member

    Not sure where you are getting your info about overhaste but most bards consider the overhaste song to be far and away the most important song we have. Its significant enough that most bards use both overhaste song and overhaste aura just to be absolutely certain its on their group 100% of the time. It is definitely not "unparseable"
  9. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Aria and Aura of Va`Ker are great for overhaste as well as triple attack and flurry chance.

    With delay 20 weapons (100 bard) - (these #s are based off 1000 sec parses, they give a rough idea only)
    Code:
    Buff             Delay   Rounds/sec   Triple   Flurry 1   Flurry 2
    ----------       -----   ----------   ------   --------   --------
    217% Haste        9.2      1.085        38%       83%        42%
    225% Haste        8.9      1.125        38%       83%        42%
    225% + Sviir      8.9      1.125        +7%     
    Aria of Va`Ker    8.9      1.125       +14%      +12%       +27%
    Aria + Aura of V  8.9      1.125       +18%      +17%*      +58%*
     
    * reached 100% flurry, so % is innacurate
    +% is the increase over 225% haste
    

    So with 20 delay weapons, for example, from 217% haste to 225% I see 3.6% more total attempted rounds.
    With Aria, I will see roughly 37% more attempts to hit (triples and flurries).
    With Aria and Aura, I will see roughly 50% more attempts to hit (triples and flurries).

    Probably not that useful here, as you guys are clearly not bards, but I wanted to show that Aria and Aura are indeed, super fantastic.
    Brogett likes this.
  10. Charris Journeyman


    like i was saying, the extra 8% overhaste is not why we want bards, its a great bonus, But it does not make assassin's knife superior to sansea if you have no bard in group.
  11. Brogett Augur

    No matter. I understand it now. :) Nice parsing.

    So you go from approx 62% 2 hits, 6.5% 3 hits, 18.3% 4 hits, 13.2% 5 hits => average 2.83 hits, to 44% 2 hits, 56% 5 hits => average 3.68 hits.

    So aria + aura combined = 30% more dps. Seems realistic and not too outlandish. Bard dps to group should be more than swapping them out for any one more dps. (Eg 4 dps + healer + bard should have more net dps than 5 dps + healer, and in this case they will.)

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