So you state that a lot of guilds are inefficient, they should be incentivized to improve which implies that scarcity is manageable if not desirable and that it's insane when you encounter a Mage who doesn't have all their core rotational spells because there are plenty of spells for everyone. https://srrpp.silentredemption.net/...ked-symbol-of-the-ring-of-scale-i2589.html?s= Silent Redemption defeated the expansion on March 11th so this apparently includes all drops through about 3 months after that point at which point they stopped posting loot information to that public site and poking around a bit I didn't find a public posting of loot drops since that point but a public standings list does indicate they are still actively raiding. 105 Glowing Runes and I'll take a wild guess that Mages have two "core rotational spells" that require a Glowing Rune, maybe you think it's more, maybe less. Now out of those 105 how many do you think each Cleric should get if you're being efficient? Scroll: Merciful Contravention Rk. III ; Scroll: Word of Greater Restoration Rk. III Scroll: Mending Splash Rk. III ; Scroll: Rallied Greater Guard of Vie Rk. III Scroll: Unified Hand of Emra Rk. III ; Scroll: Elixir of Wulthan Rk. III Scroll: Armor of the Merciful Rk. III Scroll: Unified Hand of Assurance Rk. III Warriors have Field Champion and Resolute Defense from separate Runes as already mentioned and also have Stormstrike Defense Discipline and so on http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=8942 Now if it's insane to you that every SR Mage didn't have at least two Glowing Runes by that point then you consider a lot of things to be insane. Copying to a spreadsheet and alphabetizing Column B it's: 4 players with 4, 13 players with 3, 12 players with 2 and 26 players with 1. So at that point only a pure melee might have all of their Level 110 Rk.3 runes and with 0 DKP cost listed it's presumably officer decided.
No, the base damage is 5% higher and the base mana is 4.5% higher, that's completely different. I'm trying to put things in terms even you could understand so bypass a whole lot of math and use a ballpark number of 1% DPS increase for a Mage getting a Rk.3 spell. Almost all Rk.3 spells are better, at issue is the actual drop rate and which spells are the most efficient upgrade for the raid force if that path is prioritized. Or if it's insane to consider things like seniority and attendance and not rush to award 2 of the 60 Glowing Runes to a relatively new Mage that apparently dropped on March 4th though June 3rd. If you're moving the goalposts to 9 months of farming and a ballpark of 180 Glowing Runes for "everyone to acquire their core spells quickly" then yes, it gets more likely at that point that a relatively new Mage would have been awarded 2 Glowing Runes after being a member of a guild farming the entire expansion for "only" 9 months. People need at most 5 Runes per rank, 3-8 spells is not all that relevant. If a long time and high attendance Cleric wants 248hp, 14ac and 5mana/tic from a Glowing Rune, I'd certainly consider 1% more DPS for a relatively new Mage to be more efficient. I wouldn't necessarily consider it insane to prioritize the Cleric because of the social aspect of awarding a Glowing Rune. The Cleric doesn't need all of the their buffs to be Rk.3, the Mage doesn't need 1% more DPS, it's up to whatever people and/or system makes loot decisions and if the Cleric or Mage leaves over the other player getting the Rune that's unfortunate but if they were that close to leaving they weren't long for the guild anyways.
Lol @ using data ending in June to prove a lack of spells. I'm not going to babyproof every sentence for you. The people posting here who I care about responding to are in top 5/10 guilds. The person I responded to and quoted is in a top 5 guild. I said I was talking about guilds that have been farming RoS for months. I don't really get why you seem so intent on mischaracterizing the posts you're responding to, you can't unintentionally misunderstand them to the degree you're doing. RoI finished important spells as a guild in May at the latest? Anyone who apps gets all of their important spells as soon as they drop if they ask, and that's been true for months. Guilds that have gotten as many spells as we have but who have a greater current need for spells could change their distribution system to address that. Whatever you're on about doesn't change that.
I would have cut off complete information around the same point, 3 months of working through the expansion and 3 months of farming. I thought you were Sancus on FV, assuming someone didn't poach your name how about a guild that isn't sui generis? RoI got core spells in 3 months of farming the expansion and 2 months of flagging? Since RoI raids every 5th day during progression that's probably somewhere around the same number of Glowing (subject of course to RNG) as SR has a month later. So 8 Clerics who are currently full members according to the roster, maybe some of those joined in May or later, maybe Clerics who were active early in the expansion aren't currently members. So how many "core" Glowing Runes does a Cleric have in RoS? Maybe you don't want to speak for another class so how many for Mages? Do you have any data on spell drops for either guild? Pretend like this is a discussion of the issue of spell drops.
How many people actually need Rk III of a buff when it only takes one person to mgb it? Do healers really need Rk III heals when most guilds are over healing to begin with? Do tanks really need Rk III defensives when they're being over healed? Killing stuff faster is a proven means of beating raids. Especially since killing faster often negates many mechanics. In the end, it's very subjective of what classes have more need for their Rk III spells. For those that do everything they can to eek out every bit of dps, that 1% base damage advantage is important. Those not trying to get their core spells who are in guilds that leave that option to players aren't maximizing their potential. I think this thread speaks more to the completionist types that are obsessed with clicking every box regardless of value. Top guilds should be in decent shape at this point in time. Mid tier and below are likely struggling to get people core spells, let alone the completionist types in those guilds.
I apped to Valhallah on May 23rd, and it was a one month app period. I got all spells I'd consider essential (including three glowings) during that period. They distribute spells in about the same way as RoI, based on merit/need. Neither RoI nor Valhallah keeps data on spells. Valhallah did have two Mage apps on July 30th, one of whom had no Rank III spells and the other had only Spear of Molten Arcronite. By the raid on August 27th, both of them had RS / Volley / Chaotic / 110 Spear as Rank III's. I can't speak for what Clerics had on their spell list, and like I said we don't keep data about that. The spells I was primarily concerned about as a Mage were Relentless Servant, Volley of Many, Chaotic Inferno, and Spear of Molten Arcronite. To my knowledge, all four Mages had those by the time we beat the expansion (February). Our list also contained Meteoric Bolt, Rain of Knives, Shock of Arcronite Steel, and Beam of Molten Rhyolite IIRC, since the Magic spells were needed for VP. I had all of those within the next month or so.
I'm not sure why people are against this. What does it possibly hurt you? If they add this in, returning people to the game stay caught up with 106-110 spells. It does no harm at all to anyone to do it.
i dont think anyone is, but that is an assumption/interpretation of mine. we can discuss how raid effectiveness can be maintained if it isnt though. as always, its a mixed audience being a public forum. im a proponent of adding spells to the raid vendor and adding ros spells to tbl tables. if i were to devils advocate your post specifically, adding this rewards selfishness, or mitigates it, which doesnt empower a smarter better population. while i FULLY enjoy having a full spellbook, including the rubbish spells i will never cast (hypocritical maybe, but in my situation i didnt "steal" them and we're in garbage time), i had my critical rk3 pretty quickly waiting 6-7 months for my dumb ones. to parrot or paraphrase other posts, rk3 vs. rk2 isnt usually going to tip the balance, and skill trumps gear and ranked spells pretty quickly. spells and chase items (with achievements) available on vendors is inconsistent, but maybe that just adds flavor to the game? to the op i think its a good idea for a level neutral expansion for a variety of reasons. plz beta get here.
I'm not against the idea but it's not ok to use exaggerated claims as justification for the idea. That's how you get ignored.
Because guilds are used to simply dealing with things rather than being pro-active. The last level increasing expansion had the same spell rate drop issue and: Game Update Notes: February 25, 2015 - All progression raids in Arx Mentis now drop four to eight Essences of the Citadel. If 12 classes can use 5 Glowing Spell Runes, 100 different raiders over the course of a year is a pretty low number and you set the drop rate to ~20 Glowing per month it will take about 2 years for everyone to get all their 110 spells. It could be that the loot tables are created using a premise of "you should never cast this spell anyways" or "upgrading this spell doesn't matter" then you could logically make unranked spells and/or merge largely meaningless spells into other Rune groups. It couldn't be a problem with math, an iPhone has more computing power than NASA used to land on the moon, someone would tap the screen a few times at some point before RoS launched. It could be that someone decided, a Cleric should have to clear every raid for 2 years before they get Rk.3 of their self-buff. It's not a difficult problem to deal with, guilds will award the Runes however they want by balancing efficiency and morale concerns and in some guilds that's really easy because being efficient improves morale. The main issue is the perception of incompetence which could be addressed by a Dev explaining the reasoning behind the drop rates and having Roxxlyy post it on the boards and then either ignore the replies or lock the thread. It's definitely not that the Devs are incompetent, the Feb 25th patch was planned long before TDS went live, there is no chance that they can't even grasp basic math. It's just the perception of incompetence when 10 months into the RoS expansion no one has bothered to send an email to Roxxlyy explaining the brilliant reasoning behind the drop rates or it got lost in a spam folder and was never posted.
So basically "bad game design" that was "fixed once" but not made better continuously throughout newer game designs.
Not at all, the brilliant and creative Devs have ingenious reasons behind their consistently excellent design decisions. Consider that in 2014 you start dropping Wizard "raid weapons" which are at least in theory balanced against 147/22 1h weapons and 306/30 2h weapons. In 2015 and 2016 the best course of action is to apply all sorts of bandaids and kludges so the ~33k nuke remains in theory balanced with 173/21 1h weapons and 388/21 2h weapons. Much like Picard the Devs will not waver, "there... are... three... ranks!", to someone without their keen logic and insight the obvious thing to do is make Rk.4 for TBM raids and EoK group content and Rk.5 for EoK raids but there is a sacred design document in the bowels of 15051 Avenue of Science that proclaims that should you ever create spell tiers you will never include more than 3. There are reasons for just about anything, but the Devs choose not to reveal their reasons for just about any decision so many things can appear to be a bad design decisions. The whole schtick about letting people grind through an expansion for 10 months without giving any indication on whether or not spell drop rates are working as intended or why spell runes aren't on a raid vendor and building up the excitement to the first TBL raid and finding out if you will need a RoS raid day in 2019 if you want to get Rk.3 spells for your apps is the puzzling part. Well not really puzzling, the Devs have a consistent and really obvious policy on communication and it's really hard to spell Roxlyy, Roxxllyy, Roxxly, Roxllyy... and get information to someone whose primary role is in theory community relations.
I agree with your math but I think you assumptions are completely off. There are 9 ROS raids that drop up to five runes. They can be raided every 5 days. In a month, you could do up to 6 full clears of 9 raids or 54 raids. Call that 200 - 250 spell runes per month. Unless the drop rate is 10% (not from my experience), you’re going to have way more than 20 Glowing a month. Furthermore, there are up to 54 players permitted per raid. So unless your raider attendence is 50%, getting a full set of runes for 100 people sounds a bit aggressive. So now that we know the bounds of what is available, let’s talk about what is fair to expect: 1) Not all 110 runes are useful. While the completionist in me would love to have all Rank III spells, I won’t use 50% of them. 2) If you can’t field a consistent raid force of 54 people and need 100 people to consistently beat raids, you can’t expect all 100 of them to have complete Rank III spell books. The individuals within that block of 100 people with high raid attendence are probably going to be able to fill out their spell books, while those with lower raid attendence won’t. This seems balanced to me. 3) It isn’t realistic to expect every guild to raid lockouts or to beat all 9 raids every 5 days. If a guild wants to adopt a more relaxed schedule (i think most top guilds only raid one or two days a week), or are unable to beat all the raids, then yes, they should not expect a full book of Rk. III spells for every character. 4) The opportunity exists to continue raiding the expansion even after the next expansion is launched. We don’t expect a level increase with The Burning Lands, so I imagine most of the RoS spells will remain relevant. Plenty of guilds continue to farm prior expansions to gear up after a new expansion launches.
I agree. I am not a caster with mana, but wanted to get the best Zerker disciplines I can, this year! (The important ones) As Paladin, I only upgraded Brells, and watched all the casters get the spell drops. It appears like they got to have each one of their spells a Rank 3, while driving up rune value at the same time during loot time. I could be wrong, and apologize if I am. But, spell drops usually what 3 runes in RoS T1? And do you think I I got enough dkp to compete with a caster? The answer is no, and here I am waiting.. again.
OP: "Hey, I'm a full time raider who has been getting all of their RK3 spells for a decade, can we do something to make sure that continues? This expansion hasn't been quite as accommodating." Community: "Shut up. What makes you think you should get ALL of your "raid spells" for being a fulltime raider? You're not properly adjusting to how we compensated for the lack of spell drops and distributing in just the right way." What's wrong with you guys?
What makes you think you will get any TBL rank III spells if you can't get all your RoS rank III spells now?
