Relative power of classes through later expansions?

Im trying to pick a main for phinny right now, and am attempting to pick assuming i'll be playing longterm, not just fotm.

That said, I have no experience with the game between PoP and a couple expansions ago on live, so this has been difficult.

Someone wanna take a crack at describing relative power movements, and key abilities gained, over the expansions for me? preferably from a GoD to, lets say, HoT range?

Mostly interested in dps classes, but would not mind knowing about others also.

It is really hard to predict at this point exactly how the different dps classes will stack up at various eras. Daybreak has made some huge changes to DPS classes in the past year or two, since Fippy and Vulak went through those eras. Really, at this point, the best anyone can give you is an educated guess. Here are a few thoughts though.

Gates introduces Berserkers. Last time around, melee dps (especially Rogues, to a lesser extent monks and zerkers) did very well from OoW to PoR. Casters suffer more than melees from 4 expansions of level 70 cap with no major spell upgrades.

In SoF and SoD, wizards take a big step back into the limelight with the introduction of instant cast nukes and twincast. Rangers also seemed to pick up during this era, and can absolutely blow up the parse on certain fights.

Necros are steady all along but also seem to take off more later in the expansions. Coming out of House of Thule into Veil of Alaris, they can do some pretty amazing things. Exping in zones like City of Bronze, our necros were often killing mobs faster solo than entire groups of non necros. And on any raid fights where there are several bosses that can be dpsed simultaneously, necros will absolutely crush it. They also are due for a dot revamp that will probably make them even more powerful.

One major factor this time around will be changes to the max levels on headshot (ranger), assassinate (rogue) and decapitate (Berserker). All of these will hit higher level mobs than during the previous runs through these expansions. There will be some great opportunities for very fast xp along the way for these classes. These shouldn't be factors on raids, but you never know--sometimes DBG misses things. (When they first did the revamp, headshot was landing on raid mobs in convorteum raids, the end zone for Underfoot.)

Synergies become more and more of a thing from OoW onward. Beastlords become especially important around SoF here. Even though they won't top a lot of parses individually, they should have a solid place in the raid makeup.

Hi Machen!

Awesome insights, thank you! Since you seem to be happy to map out how EQ will change the meta as expansions roll out, could you provide your insights on the progression of the Shadowknight class? I plan to play that class exclusively on my single character, Gorgol - throughout my time on Phinigel.

- Gorg the Gorgeous

Classes aren't the same as people remember balancewise really. There's been a ton of changes to live that trickle down to TLP (and they're still making changes).

Some of my observations from TL in RF and AoS on Phin (100% raid based, and my experience in a guild where people try to min/max regularly) -
Classic - Melee suck in Classic (except in PoSky on higher isles, where mnks are top), Wiz/Nec/Mag are pretty powerful, Wiz is prolly top.
Kunark - Mnk/Sk are top melee in Kunark, Rog is 2nd tier but competitive, Wiz is top caster, with Mag/Nec showing up on certain fights (resists for Mage and length for Nec). Overall Wiz/Mnk/SK top tier, Mag/Nec/Rog 2nd tier.
Velious - Mnk/Wiz/Mag/Nec/Rog/Sk were all competitive at times. No single class seemed to stick out. Individual fights and plows can vary, thats just an aggregate.
Luclin - Mag/Wiz/Rng/Mnk top tier and each leads parses depending - Monk is probably weakest of those, I'd say SK/Rog 2nd tier.
PoP - So far Mnk looking to be tops. We're not done gearing or normalizing fights though, but parses are typically Mnk/Rng/Rog/Wiz/Mag in some order. I'd estimate that by the end it will be firmly Mnk #1.
GoD->SoF - I was the Monk Class Rep for a long time on live, so I have a pretty good grasp of the classes mechanics, and I'd expect them to remain strong up through SoD at least (they're gonna get another good boost in GoD with DF & 7th year). Casters have continued to surprise me, so I'd expect Wiz/Mag to be stronger than people remember them being. Ber parsed pretty well on Quarm, so I'd expect them to be competitive with Mnks since they also have a ton of strong basic structure & synergies. Necs are sorta lackluster atm, sorta a shame, I expect them to see some boosts going forward, but not sure how it will play out with DoT revamps in progress (traditionally, they were top or near-top dps starting in about DoDH). Rog, they don't scale as well in fundamentals with base changes as Mnk/Ber do, they're very reliant on backstab and it doesn't see as much of a boost as the other melees, plus they don't have any other specials coming in to rely on - I'd expect them to be 2nd tier but showing up on top 10's. Unknown - SKs, Wars, Bsts, Rngs going forward - it will be interesting to see where some base spell and melee boosts put them in the end, but so far they're reliant on trueshot to parse (Rng), are decent dps but typically not put in dps roles (War/Shd), or I just have no clue (bst).

Hi Gorgol,

First, welcome to Everquest!

I haven't kept up as much with the tanking changes over the past couple years. SK's are insanely powerful in group content for quite a long while though. Enough that they just nerfed one of your most important abilities, they are going to get better, and better, and keep getting better as expansions roll along. If you don't want to raid, and just want to do group stuff, SK is probably the best option for a tank. If you want to raid, sk is still a great class--even though warriors are going to be tanking the main bosses most of the time. Knights have lots of important raid rolls, and a skilled SK will always stand out--whether it is being the fastest on the draw to pick up adds, or being the guy raid leaders go to when something needs to be kited reliably, or being able to keep himself alive offtanking minis. If I were an SK, I'd be glad that you don't have the DA hammer yet and aren't shoehorned into the ramp tank roll just yet, which is pretty dull really. I have led every raid from PoP on through COTF, and I can tell you that a highly skilled SK (or Pally, for that matter) is worth his weight in gold--even if not everyone in the guild notices or appreciates the differences, the raid leadership will, and you're one of the few classes that can really save the day when things go wrong.

And a geared out raid SK is going to completely crush group content even with the latest nerf. If you want to raid, and you want to be the rock around which a group can build itself, SK is a good choice.

So I'd say, if you have quick reactions, stick with it and work at mastering it. Just from your brief posting history, you do seem to have the inquisitive nature needed to really master any EQ class, so if you also have the physical skills needed for SK you will do well. On the other hand, if you have slow reflexes and reaction speed, I'd encourage you to swap to something less twitchy but still complex.

Bards become demi-gods. Not an exageration.

Have to agree with Ahura on monks being #1 still and strong through at least SoD.

Rangers are good right now, but they should drop slightly until TSS gives them a boost. SoF is where they get back to maybe competitive with monk and rogue.

I believe SoF is also when beastlords get their big dps increase.

Wizard is good right now and gets stronger in GoD+. If fights start lasting >5 minutes again they'll be competitive.

all melee classes have that AA which gives them a 50% dps increase.
Thats huge.
SKs originally were crap dps (Which they should be, since they are tanks).
I would keep my bets on melee for the next few expansions

Hmm, a bit disheartening to hear since ive been leveling up my rogue to try and work towards topping dps charts... thought they were outdpsing monks by a good bit. having a really hard time choosing a class to get up to par for raids because it seems like no classes are needed anymore. so many monks and alot of guilds are closed off for rogues. all i want is a nice melee class to become a gear addict for and scale up well, while still being able to get into a raid guild reliably.

started beastlord, switched to SK, then switched to rogue cause i was worried i wouldnt get a raid guild as SK.... any advice? i want the gear grind to be fun and look cool, so i prefer plate and melee characters.

Stick with your rogue. No matter what people might say above, rogues are still the best bet overall for melee dps. The top rogues beat the top monks most of the time on most expansions from Gates through HOT on the last round of progression servers.

Play what you like, if you are a competent player you will always get invited along no matter what class you are playing.

Can confirm, rogues are awesome. After playing as a rogue on Fippy for so long, I don't know if I could ever play a non-rogue again. Sneak/Hide is the best thing, ever.

thanks just needed a bit of a reassurance. im not usually one to go for something just for seeing high numbers, but if im going to play a class that pretty much can only dps without many other benefits, i wanna make sure they are actually going to fulfill their role the best. ill keep going with my rogue, im just still hoping i get that "powerful" feeling of having a super geared character, despite the fact that they dont have much out of group use.

Troll Chewy is ugly trolling. You bother reading his entire post but can't see his sig?

Machen, please.

I topped a lot of parses in velious on the wizard, but monks are really coming into their own POP+...that said, I've watched Astral top parses on a mage numerous times over multiple expansions. Bottom line: if you are a good player, you'll always parse well, even playing a non-traditional "parse-topping" class. Play what you enjoy playing, and your chance of burnout is far less likely.

what abilities do they receive in future expansions?

Do druids ever slip the chains of public scorn with later changes? I raided steadily through DoDH and was always able to add good contributions via a blend of healing curing and DPS. I could single heal most of the harder content into that expansion on a decent tank, but outside my guild it was always hard to find group slots. Unless there was a major paradigm shift or mechanic change at some point that alleviates that, I can't bring myself to p
Main one again, though I miss the feeling of having tools for almost every situation.

Hi Machen!

Thank you for taking the time to share your insights RE SK progression throughout the EQ expansion cycle! As you have seen from post history, I do have every intention of bringing myself up to speed on EQ so that I can carry my own weight when both grouping and raiding in the near future. I hope you will not mind me seeking you out for further advice as I continue to make the EQ - Phinigel TLP server my permanent MMO home.

Thanks Machen!

- Gorgol

Although I'm fairly certain you're trolling (in addition to violating a few forum rules), I'll answer for the benefit of anyone else reading this to get a sense of where raid classes are. In all sorts of fights, from low # split raids with long fights to full raid burns during primetime, Rogues are competitive, but are a solid 2nd tier in Luclin. I'm not sure I recall a single fight where we topped the parse. Our top dps was either Wiz, Mag, Rng, or (a bit rarer than the first three) Mnk. This includes VT where the Rog has Akheva banes (which made them more competitive). If casters were a bit lom or we were short a mindwracking necro, then the casters would drop a bit on the parse and you'd maybe see Rng on top usually. If Rng discs were down in that same situation you'd see Mnk on top. In some fights, we'd see Mag/Wiz on top of Rogs by 80-100%, but Rogs were usually a good 10-30% behind the 4 listed classes.

In PoP, so far (as I said before, nobody is fully geared), Monks seem to be a solid 10-30% ahead of Rogues. Why? Monks have gained more from various enhancements than Rogues do in terms of gains from melee skill changes, dmg % AA, the split of speedfocus and innerflame timers, changes to Fk/DP/etc, and other tweaks over the years. I don't see this changing much because of how interactions with DF+7th year in GoD, Ber synergies (GoD/PoR for example), the claw line (DoN), etc come into play. They're also just plain advantaged in that they can dps from any angle at near-full potential.