Reason for 2mil pp cap on /trader?

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by lockjaws, May 12, 2020.

  1. lockjaws Augur

    Hey all - forum searching doesn't work, so I am asking here.

    Is there a reason for items being capped at 2mil in the bazaar?
  2. klanderso Developer

    It's a technical thing. Imagine you have a bucket to hold all the water you'll drink for the day. If your bucket is full and you get more added, it overflows and you lose it. You can upgrade to a bigger bucket, but it's not as simple as simply going to Buckets 'r' Us and picking one up. That's kind of where we're at.
    Duder, minimind, CrazyLarth and 4 others like this.
  3. Fanra Augur

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,147,483,647#In_computing

    EverQuest was originally a 32-bit program. They have made a number of changes years later that permited 64-bit parts. For example, mob hit points used to be capped at 2,147,483,647 but can now be much higher.

    What does that mean for pp? Well, the maximum number of coin you can have is 2,147,483,647 copper. Which is 2,147,483 pp.

    So, since they increased mob hit points, why can't they do coins? Well, that is the 64-bit question. The answer is that it is really really hard to do without breaking a lot of things.

    klanderso could explain the details but he decided to go with the bucket explanation instead of getting technical. The short answer is that in every place in the game that involves items (that have any buy or sell price) or coins (every mob that drops coins, etc.) it uses the 32-bit signed integer. That is many many thousands of places.

    If it was changed to a 64-bit integer, not only is there a 100% chance this would break many things, but it would increase the computer memory needed to run EQ and slow things down.

    Even today, with creating 64-bit computer programs, a programmer uses smallest number types needed in order to keep memory usage low and run speeds fast.

    Some different number types used in computing:

    Boolean or Binary: Number can be either zero or one, usually represented as false or true.
    Integer (32-bit signed): -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647
    Integer (32-bit unsigned): 0 to 4,294,967,295
    16 bit integer (signed): -32,768 to 32,767
    64-bit integer (signed): -9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807
    64-bit integer (unsigned): 0 to 18,446,744,073,709,551,615

    Note that by definition, integers must be whole numbers, no factions or decimal points.
  4. Fanra Augur

    Oh, also, while mob hit points are done at the server level (Darkpaw's computers), displaying the amount of coins you have to you is done at client level (your computer). I think the EQ client program (the one you run) is still 32-bit and therefore might not be able to handle showing 64-bit numbers. (in computing the next step up from 32-bit is 64-bit).

    If Darkpaw spent the time changing the client to 64-bit, that would take a lot of time. It would also mean everyone who runs EQ on 32-bit Windows would need to change to 64-bit Windows.

    I'm just guessing on this part.

    Also, everything I post on this subject is really a guess. Real programmers, and really only Darkpaw ones, can answer this for sure.
  5. Drencrom Journeyman

    You got a little carried away with your first-year CS prep course and forgot that you can have over 2,147,483,647 copper / 2,147,483 pp. Hell, I broke 2.2 million back in 2006. So, to clarify for you and the others, the question is why items can't be listed for more than 2 million. You can have coin in amounts over the 32-bit limit, you can trade them, drop them in the shared bank, etc. So why not bazaar transactions? How do they differ than a player-to-player trade? I've dropped 10m+ for kronos numerous times...

    For sure. Since we are not limited to 2.147m plat, there is no 32-bit limit in play with coinage. I think you made a few assumptions there.
    lockjaws likes this.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Confirmed with CS in the past that manipulating files to get 2147 mil pp is against the rules. I don't suggest anyone doing this.
  7. Jhenna_BB Augur

    I'm too lazy to look up the patch but I recall sometime in the last year, /bazaar queries will not show you trader offerings over 2,000,000pp. Anyone futzing with ini files to raise the amount is only hurting themselves. No one can see your query and you may still receive discipline in the form of a warning or actual suspension.
  8. Magic Augur

    Maybe add new currency to bazaar, like nobles or krono? So you can set item on trader for 2 Krono, or for 50 Nobles? :)
    minimind likes this.
  9. Corash New Member

    Each new expansion brings in a new alternative currency. Seriously Devs, why not just make Bazaar Tokens buyable from the Bazaar npc's at cost, eg 1 million plat per token and exchangeable back to the sane npc for no charge. Then add the Bazaar Token to the regular currency window and the trader/barter windows also. That way if someone has an item they want to sell for 4 million plat, they can put it at 4 Bazaar Tokens.
    lockjaws likes this.
  10. yepmetoo Augur

    Nobles need to be usable as currency in the bazaar and get rid of the surcharge. Done.
  11. Yara_AB Augur

    this wouldn't be possible afair. It is the same issue with Nobles. The way how NPCs work they won't buy an item for the same price it is sold for.
  12. Qbert Augur

    It really shouldn't be that big of a challenge to add a quest to an npc that accepts X of special currency and rewards you with X*Y coins as a reward. This doesn't need to be done as a vendor transaction and was the biggest flop of the whole "nobles" experiment.
    lockjaws and Barton like this.
  13. lockjaws Augur

    I agree, if there are technical limitations on how much an item can list for in the bazaar, then items need to be sellable for additional currencies, or traded for like in /barter mode.

    No one is going to lose money on the stupid Nobles.

    Until then, servers will have 5 general channels of bazaar spam, I guess, defeating the purpose of the bazaar zone to begin with.
  14. Zerker1231 Journeyman

    Pretty sure the bazaar listing is done through a database and that database has a technical limit per key/entry. I could be wrong.

    They should just scrap the whole bazaar its outdated and EQ needs a real auction house.

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