Ranger vs Mage DPS

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Heajol, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Heajol Elder

    Hi all,

    I'm still working out my six box classes. Been at this a while and still haven't got my classes for Live completely narrowed down. Enjoying playing again and will probably even get the new expansion soon on a few of my accounts. So far only have TOV on one account.

    Anyway, of ranger vs mage which class does more DPS at high levels 110-115? I still don't even have one character to 110 yet, but I'm starting to get closer. My max toons are 106. Slowly working through content.

    I would like a toon that can do decent ranged damage and currently have a 97 mage and 95 ranger. They both offer a nice tool kit asides from just damage, but DPS wise, which would you pick?
  2. Petalonyx Augur

    What else is in your 6?

    I'd never go without CotH in a 4+ box group...
  3. Heajol Elder

    I know there are benefits to both. I don't need tracking or snare but ranger provides some nice adps to my group. Not sure if the adps makes the ranger a more worthy candidate than the mage with the off tank and coth built in. I do plan to run a parse to see how I have the mage currently performing. The issue I have with the mage usually is that I can't get them to put out worthwhile dps .. unless maybe the fight is long enough. Is it just that the mage offers more sustained and not much burst dps?

    My group is monk, paladin, bard, shaman, cleric and I was hoping for a ranged dps class to fill the last slot. I do have a rogue on the cleric's account also. My monk currently does about 50% of the group's DPS followed by bard with 10-15% of the groups DPS (not counting adps).
  4. dubblestack Journeyman

    ^ coth is something I wouldn't go without either. Once a ranger is positioned correctly, they are somewhat similar to a mage but more versatile and a few more buttons to push, and no reliance on a pet. That being said, the positioning thing can be quite annoying sometimes, you have to be just close enough so you can use jolting kicks, to activate synergy, but just far enough to keep autofire going, they also require gear, dex augs, and the best bow you can find. Synergy I believe also only affects melee classes, so it may also depend on what the rest of your group is like.

    I would say it is not a very effective box unless someone is playing it full time, it's been easier for me to have mages, but I enjoy playing my ranger more than probably ever other class I've played.
  5. Petalonyx Augur

    Paladin cleric shaman is overkill.

    Drop the cleric and pick up both ranger and mage.
  6. Vumad Augur

    You definitely do not have an optimized group as it is. The 6th spot doesn't really change that. Since the bard can snare and track, I would go with the mage for the CoH which is a huge QOI improvement when boxing. The DPS difference b/t ranger and mage is not enough to make a difference as compared to switching out one of those other 5.
  7. Heajol Elder

    I sort of ended up with the paladin and monk since they are my most played toons. I do have a rogue on the cleric's account as well. (94 rogue) It just helps to have a cleric when undergeared for the content / under AA'ed etc.

    I just burned lesson and ran a parse. At level 97 it's showing my mage's dps is 3k. Fighting the same mobs my ranger's dps was 5k at level 95. And the ranger adds more to the rest of the group (adps / buffs).

    But I'm not sure if GamParse is picking up the mage's dps correctly? It shows her max hit at 47k but I know she hit over 100k a few times.

    Sorry I know these are low numbers but remember these toons around ~ level 95.
  8. Heajol Elder

    Meanwhile my shaman is doing over 7k dps at level 97 and out dpsing both the ranger and the mage.
  9. Chopin.Xegony Elder

    What do you like to play the most? Ranger or Mage?

    I ask this because ultimately it will depend on what is going to keep you playing this game. If you have more fun on the ranger play the ranger, if you have more fun on the mage play the mage. If optimizing your group set up is how you will have the most fun then you should do that.

    Also how your other characters are set up is going to matter a lot as to the dps of the ranger vs the mage. The bard and shaman BOTH do more to boost the ranger than they will the mage which is my guess as to why you saw better numbers with the Ranger over the Mage. It also depends on the spell weave of the mage and ranger, were they set up for maximum dps? Did they have some fluff spells in there that when you read about them in the spell description they sound really cool but in practice they aren't as effective as other spells? Both the ranger and mage have these fluff spells.

    There are a ton of factors that go into 'the best' dps. Ultimately I would advise you to select which one you have the most fun playing and run that. If you want to make a really optimized group to box then far more needs to be addressed than just swapping the ranger or mage.

    So my number 1 thought, what do you have the most fun doing in EQ?

    Edit: Also is one of the members of your crew your 'main' character that takes priority over all your other characters? That could really effect what choice you should make in regards to ranger/mage.
  10. Vumad Augur

    That's all fine. There's nothing wrong with your group. I'm just commenting that your group is not optimized so the differences in the last role are not that big of a deal. One might do some more DPS, but switching out the SHM and using the bard to slow or switching out the cleric and using the PAL and SHM to heal would yield greater net DPS than mage vs ranger.

    Right now, you are tripled up on priests (SHM, CLR, PAL). Double uped on aDPS (SHM and BRD). You have the lowest DPS of the tank classes. You are doubled up on pullers (MNK and BRD). You have the CC that takes the most player input.

    Since you have a bard that can forage and track, I think CoH will be worth any minor losses in DPS you see from going mage over ranger. You can, starting at L97, run to anywhere with 1 toon and CoH your entire group with a single cast. Single targeted CoH is at L55.

    Ranger and Mage will have similar DPS given similar AA and gear. About half of the mage DPS will come from the pet, so the benefits from a SHM wont be as different as if you went with a wizard, which would give ports. Since you are DPSing with the SHM and looking at a hybrid, you will need to run spell based songs anyway.

    The best point is in post #9. Play what you want to play. If you want a ranger, use the ranger. The DPS differences against wont justify for or against when comparing those 2 classes. If you like the group you have, just tack on the class you like the most and dont worry about what gamparse is telling you.

    For you comment on Gamparse, it is not perfect. it only picks up what you put into it, so z-axis and range are issues, as well as not having all the filters turned on.
  11. Heajol Elder

    Thank you for your comments. Basically was looking for what Vumad said here:
    Ranger and Mage will have similar DPS given similar AA and gear.

    I also have a warrior on the paladin account. Might just roll with that instead. The monk is my main for Chopen who asked.

  12. kookoo Augur

    it is not just for dps , mage pet might be your best tank until your tank got their gears and aa;s up to date , ( and skills ) .

    we doing a lot the TOV missions , with some * real tank * it is very easy , but there is one or 2 * raid geared * that we play with who are hard to keep alive , diff players , diff skills .
  13. Chopin.Xegony Elder

    I run a 4 (sometimes 6) box team, sometimes solo, sometimes with my Lady. My main character is a bard, and perhaps the story of how I set my group up would be helpful.

    My main character is my bard

    My Lady's main character is her cleric

    So both of these characters will never leave the group.

    When she and I first got together I ran Mage, Shaman, Wizard, Bard.

    When she and I first got together she ran, Cleric, Enchanter.

    So during the early days of us playing together we didn't swap out any classes even though we had a beastlord, a Shadowknight and another mage sitting on the respective benches of two of our accounts. This set up also left us with some redundancy issues. Don't need both Bard and Enchanter, Dont need both Shaman and Cleric. Also for those keeping track at home we did not have a tank. For about a year we kept the original line up. We used the Earth pet to tank all of TBL for us and we were able to box everything in TBL other than the raids. During TBL I noticed that my mage was only losing very slightly to the wizard on my parser, and that was with him using an Earth pet and having the first two spells in his weave be the two pet runes. So I convinced my lady that it would be best for me to swap out my wizard for the other Mage. So we ran through TBL and GMM again with a second Mage.

    Now this is where the 'what do you have the most fun with' and 'whats your main' come into play. My bard is my main. The class that does the most for the Bard in EQ is . . . the Beastlord, and well would you look at that my lovely Lady's Enchanter's account has a lvl 90 Beastlord on it. Well with a touch of effort and buying her a really expensive fondue dinner at a really fancy restaurant she decided that it would be best to swap out the Enchanter for the Beastlord since my Bard can handle the crowd control and I pull kinda good =). We leveled up the Beastlord and she is LOVING it. She constantly wants to see parses of our groups especially when we do burn runs and she always asks how she did compared to my Bard.

    So at this point in EQ we are running Bard, Beastlord, Cleric, Magician, Magician, Shaman.

    Wow that is a lot of DPS, we melted mobs super fast and with this set up my Bard was getting maxium adps from both the Shaman and the Beastlord, the Bard has an amazing relationship with the Beastlord as well being that the Bard boosts the Beastlord's dps by more than any other class in the game, and the Shaman is the 'melee' healer being that the Shaman provides the most ADPS to melee classes than any of the three priest classes.

    Then Torment of Velious was released and when we were doing a group mission we noticed that the mission had anti pet tanking mechanics. Okay so we drop that mission out of frustration and try a different one, and guess what, more anti pet tanking mechanics. This frustrates us deeply because we didn't have a leveled up tank at the time, and two neither of us wanted to run a tank. This is because I find running more than one melee character to be difficult with the need to position and re-position with every fight, and my Lady was running her first melee character ever in the 19 years she has been playing EQ. However we have this issue of anti pet tanking mechanics, and after a long discussion the two of us decided that we didn't need TWO Magicians so we swapped out one of them for the Shadowknight and leveled him up.

    Our current group set up is Bard, Beastlord, Cleric, Magician, Shadowknight, Shaman

    Bard - Here because he is my main character, I enjoy him more than any other character in the game. - Most fun

    Beastlord - Here because she does the most to boost the Bard - Makes me have more fun on the Bard.

    Cleric - My Lady's main character - Lady's most fun

    Magician - Used to be Main Tank, lots of dps, good for herding the group - Call of the Hero and dps.

    Shadowknight - He is here to round out the group and give us a real tank so we don't need to fear anti pet mechanics. - He's here to tank.

    Shaman - Does a lot to boost the Bard , and Beastlord good for slows and buffs too - Here to make me have more fun on Bard

    Sorry this post turned into such a book.

    TL:DR - What class will make you have more fun on your Monk (main toon)?
  14. Vumad Augur

    SK, BST, SHM, BRD, MAG, CLR sounds like a great group. Your wife is connected to her cleric, just like I am connected to mine, but given the SHM, I think a druid would make for a better 6-box, because of ports and succor. Can bail and campfire back.

    I box mag, enc, clr, and I also wont give up my 15 year old cleric, but just throwing out how much I like my FTP druid and how much I miss her in ToV, for the sake of conversation.
  15. Chopin.Xegony Elder

    Yeah that was kinda the point I wanted to make. My group isn't totally optimized, but that's okay. Would a druid be better in this set up? Possibly, but the Shaman is there to help my bard do more DPS, and since my bard is my main toon and I enjoy playing him the shaman being there to boost my bard's dps makes it more fun to play.

    EDIT: Sorry to derail your thread here, I hope you got something useful out of it.
  16. Heajol Elder

    I think the ranger wins as far as what boosts the monk and turns me into a wolf! which is fun. I don't like using the werewolf thing on the shaman even though it offers a nice endurance boost at least. I find it's easier to position the melee and ensure they're in position if I can actually see if they're swinging etc.

    I ran my rogue last night for a lesson and parsed that as well .. in the same camp as the other parses I've been doing and the rogue outdamaged everyone except the monk. So I have one account that has a cleric / rogue on it that I can swap out depending on healing needs. I'd rather do it this way than the merc way although I know I can do the same with mercs if I wanted to. If I wasn't running six, I'd probably be running a cleric merc most of the time, so this way I have my own cleric if the healing is needed, for nameds (go tracking!) etc.

    But this whole thread has made me think about swapping out tanks and using my 89 warrior rather than my 106 paladin .. I'm sure it won't take me as long to get up to snuff on my warrior as my paladin did, but the warrior is a new heroic whereas the paladin is a toon that I've played off and on since 2011 or so (and not a heroic).

    That said I have experience playing all three tank classes. I checked my /played time on my SK vs my paladin and they were very similiar with 70 some days played on each (I know this is not a lot in comparison to many). The SK is on my monks account however. It's too bad that you can't transfer between accounts that would make life so much easier!

    I have also got a year + time in playing a warrior to level 70 (on TLP). I'm not sure on /played. So I'd say I'm familiar enough with all three tanks that I could switch between them.

    The warrior would do better DPS and not overlap with the cleric. Warriors are less active boxes from my experience .. easier to switch between toons if needed with more innate mitigation although they are the neediest class in EQ as far as equipment goes. I don't mind chasing gear and upgrades as that is part of the fun of the game for me.

    So does this look better? monk, warrior, bard, shaman, cleric, ranger

    As a paladin player I'm obviously not primarily concerned with DPS. :D I'm more concerned with survival and being able to take on most challenges the game throws at me. I like being self sufficient.

    I still have no experience with content past 105 so it's hard for me to know what the game will actually throw at me. All part of the learning process and I find the continuous improvement to be fun. I've played this game off and on since 2000/2001 and am still learning things every time I play!
  17. Chopin.Xegony Elder

    Pact of the Wolf Form can be blocked while still recieving the benefits of Pact of the Wolf. Check your song windows for 'Pact of the Wolf Form' and block it to not be in werewolf illusion and still get the buff.

    Monk, warrior, bard shaman, cleric, and ranger is a lot of dps, but also a lot of melee characters - bard warrior, monk. - Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but yeah it sounds like a strong, and fun, crew to run.
  18. Heajol Elder

    Blocked "Pact of the Wolf Form" and it's working great - thank you for that tip!

    Seems like I have more fun on my paladin. Levelled the warrior a couple of levels and yeah I'm back to playing my paladin. I know it's a lot of healing but can also change it up to monk, paladin, bard, shaman, rogue, mage .. using the mage for now .. seems much easier for questing. It'll be easier once I get my paladin up to snuff. Need to level to 110 and get into snowbound gear.

    Also wondering what to focus on next AA wise on my paladin, she has CS, CA and PE maxed out for her level now.
  19. Chopin.Xegony Elder

    So what I would do is open AA window and sort the aa's by 'passive' then read through them and select the ones that will help you tank better. Maybe an AA like Shield block. I run an SK not a pally so am unsure of their class AAs.
    Heajol likes this.
  20. Ebine Elder

    Do you have the best pet focus on mage. If you have a tank are you using correct pet. When you casting on the mage are you using rains as well as bolts to keep dps up. I don't know much about Rangers but I know if your only casting the main big nuke on mage your missing out on the other spells they cast for dps. I am going to say if you have tank water pet with backstab weapons are what you need.

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