I'd argue 10ish "uber" guilds (finished TDS inside of 2 months) Between 14 or 24 upper mid-tier (depending on how one counts. Finished later than 2 months or 1 event from finishing) IF one wanted to argue and suggest every guild that finishes the expansion is a "top tier guild" I wouldn't quibble with 34 top tier guilds atm (counting 1 event away guilds as finishers). And between 19 and 29 lower mid-tier 43 actual progression raid guilds - pretty consistent with the 46 that finished CoTF (some of them after TDS was released). Eyeballing the data suggests AM4 is a more difficult event.
There are no uber guilds anymore, because there's no uber content these days. You need a challenging game for "elite" to exist, and Eq raiding is just not that anymore.
EQ is hemorrhaging players, and replacing skilled players is getting harder and harder. Pick up or guest raids are going to become more commonplace. I consider myself a casual. I raid in guest raids as my guild refuses to deal with the elitism and drama. I surely don't consider myself a raid expert in any sense of the term. I've got a hundred raids under my belt, I've learned to hate Bixies, drum lines, Xelious Prime, and lag. I do my homework, I try to correct my mistakes, in essence, I try to give 110% when I'm in a raid, because as a guest, I'm under the microscope. What incentive do casuals like me have to get into the raid scene? We face a brick wall of flags and attitude with little chance of reward. I'm not asking for easier raids, I'm not asking to be spoon-fed gear. I'm very proud of what I've personally accomplished, and I certainly don't want it given away. But when I ask fellow guildies to come guest raid with me, they may try it once or twice, but invariably ask "Why?" They just don't see the point do investing such a large amount of time, with such a small chance of reward. They don't want to deal with the attitude. Sitting on top of the EQ world in an uber raid guild, proclaiming the game too easy, and saying the rest of us suck, doesn't impress me. Organizing a guest raid on Burn-out, with new raiders from 10 different guilds, and actually winning the first time you try , that impresses me. Hats off to you guys, you know who you are. (Flame on)
Your post pointed out the difference between those that can succeed and those that don't. It's effort that makes the difference. The game is not all that difficult. It's people being willing to learn what all the buttons do and to actually use them. If you want to log in, socialize and very casually play without using all your class's abilities, you won't succeed at raiding (at least not without enough people to carry you). You can't have raids tuned to /attack without taking away all the other AA and Discs (and same for /cast x without using AA). That's the difference. People like you willing to put in some effort. I could care less about what guild you're in or how many hours you play. I just care about whether or not you actually try. Yes, it does take time to get rewards. If they gave everyone a piece of loot for every raid, what reason would there be to keep playing? And it's not all about getting a piece of loot as a reward. People raiding only because they want loot are not the people I want to raid with. it's about working as a group, helping each other, accomplishing goals as a team. If most of the raids are tuned around raid forces playing with 90% of their classes' potential, I think that would be ok. End game content should be targeted at those that have mastered the game. Otherwise what's the use of learning to play and improving yourself?
How can you argue 10 guilds beat tds in two months? 4 guilds recorded completion before the end of jan.2015 . 18 now show complete with six of those being within the last couple weeks.I guess saying it makes it correct
To preface my post: I'm in a.. low/mid tier? guild (or somewhere around there, depending on the definition you use). We were 25th serverwide to beat Veil of Alaris (after RoF was released), 35th to beat Rain of Fear (After CotF was released), 26th to beat Call of the Forsaken (before TDS was released), and are yet to beat anything beyond the first raid in TDS, which we beat 40th serverwide. The point is, we certainly do work at progression, but we're fairly casual and certainly nowhere near the top tier of guilds. I have to say that a lot of the issues stated about lower tier guilds have some truth from my experience. There are many who aren't playing their classes to their full potential (or anywhere close). That is not to say that they're intentionally being lazy, but the intense drive to further your performance is not nearly as prevalent. At the same time, the drive on the side of the leadership to pressure people to perform better is also not there. That isn't to say that that's necessarily a bad thing; people may prefer to play a game for entertainment values without strict performance requirements. However, that does not lend itself to defeating current content raids. Those who do put forth that effort should be rewarded with better gear/success IMO. TDS raids (or the ones I've experienced) aren't difficult, but they do require more cohesion and capability than, say CotF T1A/B when they were current. I don't have a problem with that; the bar still is not particularly high. It seems to me that 5 progression raids tried to be all things to all people, and ended up being inadequate to basically everyone. TDS is missing content similar to CotF T1, CToV (when they were current), etc. That content is destroyed by high end guilds, but it also provides something worthwhile to do for lower tier guilds. If there were a few raids with the difficulty of CotF T1 when it was current that dropped the T1 loot that was in beta, it would give lower/mid tier guilds something to farm that makes them feel accomplished. At the same time, you could then make the higher tier raids (especially the last couple) significantly more difficult (not really annoying, but actually difficult) to provide content for higher tier guilds to feel accomplished with. Of course, that comes back to the whole needing more raids in general thing, which is at the heart of the problem. Now, I've seen the argument made multiple times in this thread that those in mid tier do have content for them in CotF. That is true. The issue is that CotF in many ways suffered from the opposite problem, which exacerbates the current problem with TDS. In my guild, there are a ton of people who are fed up of CotF and having farmed that content for a year. Even if the content suits us, they're bored with it (I say they because I actually don't mind doing quite a few of the raids in CotF). Had we not completed the expansion until a bit after TDS release, I think farming T2 CotF and starting to work on the beginning of TDS would be more stomach-able. The combination of greater than characteristic success in the prior expansion and lack of entry level raid content puts us in a weird spot where we aren't progressing much/at all. In short, there are mid tier guilds do have shortcomings that prevent them (and should prevent them) from achieving at the rate of top tier guilds. That being said, the sheer lack of content has left lower/mid tier guilds lacking the entry level content that typically exists with the expansion. That being said, I don't think top tier guilds have it much (if any) better; they are stuck with one night's worth of raids. Really by far the best solution is for Daybreak to create more raiding content, preferably with more variety.
I agree with you except for three details: 1. There are casual and family guilds that do have short comings that prevent them (and should prevent them) from achieving what lower mid tier guilds achieve. 2. This applies to all guilds - don't cry no content and not do PoWar (with multiple groups), trophies, augs, ToFS, etc. raid and group content as a guild. There's a whole bunch of group and additional non-progression raid content that yields character improvements. Members of your guild would rather have a semblance of a life than to reap a bunch of gear improvements - don't complain if events beat you. 3. There is a lack of progression content but not for those who have a pile of progression events not completed. They suffer from a lack of good execution. Better execution/see more of the game. 4. It's more revenue -> more content. Only an entity with a preternatural amount of optimism would pour a lot of money into EQ speculating that there would be a substantial return on that investment. I don't want to sound rude but Sony suggesting that SOE find another partner was based on financials and not just a narrowing of Sony's focus. We're not going to see big expansions as if EQ had ~500K subscribers IF it has 20% of that number.
I think most of the people would agree with this, and at least a dozen have said it in different ways. The next expansimacallit has to have enough raid content to entice and hold all the different teir guilds. I think they had the right idea with those chase items in CotF T1, That kept many a guild busy farming those events long after their guilds would normally. Arx actually IMO isn't a bad raid zone. It would of served just fine for the ubre guilds to compete/farm/brag, while giving every other guild a goal(even if they never made it.) What is lacking in TDS is the T1 and T2 raids. Where is our Shissar General with his waves of revenants in Katta or the Giant Regrua Tank and spank from TempestTemple? How about a bunch of Thaell Ew Ritualists that summon Godzilla for the raid to take out in Thuliasaur. If those raids existed at a less than Arx level of competency required then all the guilds would of been taken care of everyone would be happy(except battleblade of course.)
I've never understood this statement. With the new expansion, we need new spells. I have all my level 100 and under spells rank 3. Now, I need to get new 101+ rank 1, then rank 2 (which were almost impossible until Daybreak finally increased the drop rate recently), and then rank 3, which only drop in the new TDS raids. The first event only drops 101 spells, which are pretty much the most worthless level for druids. Next, gear. Guess what? I need a whole bunch of new focus items. Old gear goes to level 100 then degrades. Unless you get tier 2 CotF gear which goes to level 103 then degrades. And there are only 3 tier 2 CotF raids in the game, with 4 day 12 hour lockouts, to gear up an entire raid force. Spell haste (beneficial) - Boots. Healing - Wrist / Neck Mana saving (beneficial) - Ring Spell range (beneficial) - Ring None of which drop on the first TDS raid. That is just my healing, which as a druid is what I do on raids. For dps, I need a whole bunch of other gear with new focus effects. Yes, I admit that I can do my job without gear much easier than tanks. But I don't get power increases until I get my new spells and new focus gear. Many rank 1 new spells aren't really better than the old rank 3 spells. And with healing, speed is everything. So, if the new rank 1 spell increases my healing by 100 over the old rank 3 spell, it isn't even worth using because it doesn't matter what you heal for if the target is dead before it lands. Now, this gear might not be needed to win these raids. I'm just so tired of people (especially Devs) claiming, "Casters are front loaded, as soon as you level you are all set with much greater power than before". Do these people ever play a caster? As for the rest of this thread, our guild will beat TDS. It may take a while yet. I do think that at least removing the lockout if you lose the "One Off" should be done. I see no reason not to do it, as it does not hurt the "uber" guilds at all. Especially since you keep saying how easy they are. So, you expect us to win them. So why would you care if we do win them with a few attempts? It still takes us more time than you guys, if we fail a few times per attempt, so you still get the bonus of being able to win it in one try and then kill more targets in a night and get more loot, thus, it is not, "Everyone gets the same prize for no effort", you get more for being uber.
Should have looked at the source. Casting haste decay is a huge reason to stick with older spells until you are able to get your new spell haste focuses. With the whole mess of spell haste decay, focus decay, type 3s, RK 3 to RK 1, gear swapping requiring new type 3s, support focus decay, and making new spell sets, I find it much easier to stick with the older Rk 3s until I could safely swap over all my spells.
We've come a long way from the days of six nights a week raiding in EQ. Once you get Arx Mentis down it become a one, maybe 2, night farm.. . what to do on the other days if you yearn for more raiding?? Your options are do it with a different toon, or a different crew on another server. Ring of Valor runs old content raids under the label "Casual Raids" which means: bring a friend, play an alt, etc. The loots all random and its a great way to play the raid game and keep your pencil sharp. It also helps if people are chasing a little old raid currency for an item. Thursday/Friday night raiding for the fun. @Naugrin, Top and Mid-tier depends on who you ask. What mattters is "are you having fun". Its a game after all.
To get back closer to the topic, would it be so bad if they took a little dev time and made some raids that start in some of the "other zones" of TDS. How cool would a raid be that started with the smallest dinasour and kept advancing as you killed till you finally beat all the different types. With a reward scaled to how many of the critters you beat, not many one non vis, half way thru one vis one non vis item, beat the whole thing one vis one non vis and one spell drop. Just please nothing under water I know any dev time is valuable but putting together 1 tov style raid like that and maybe two more in other zones with them scaled slightly more toward a 3/4 filled raid force of the mid tier raiders would give us more casual something to shoot for without infringing on your right for us to suck compared to you the upper tier. And give you stuff to do as you do raid for fun also.. I think.
When I stop having fun, I will stop logging in. My question was fueled by curiosity more than anything. Whenever I see a group of people discussing relative guild strength, I wonder if they are all on the same page. Personally I have been a part of toptier/endgame guilds, ultra casual guilds, raid organizations, and everything in between. Now I'm back on the endgame side of things (on your server hehehe) though I think "bleeding edge" is reserved for one guild alone nowadays.
"They" aren't on the same page and opinions vary wildly from person-to-person. It certainly is true that EverQuest end-game raiding isn't the same as it once was, but its also true that very few things remain the same over time. Make the most of your time in EverQuest, she's been good to us, but she won't be around forever and will never be like she was when you started playing again.
I wonder - and I mean this in the most respectful way possible (which you will see if you read all the words, heh) - might some guilds' expectations be too high (including raid leader(s), officers, members - some or all of the above)? I ask this not as some ubah-elite jerky warrior currently enthroned in a successful raid guild. I am actually asking that question as someone who, not very long ago at all, was myself in a more mid-tier (leaning heavily toward family/casual) guild. Rather than us walking into RoF or CoTF on the day they released with any sort of expectation that we were going to pwn that shiz (lol), what we did was just keep on working at progressing where we knew that we had a shot in doing so, which was usually 1-2 expansions behind. What was really great about that approach was, it gave us all the opportunity to learn how to raid better, which was vital as many of us were new (or newish) raiders. We better learned how to raid both as individuals (learning our individual class abilities and expectations) and as part of a team - and we did so without each experience sucking so bad (read, being too far over our heads and abilities) that we never wanted to raid again. Had we been beating our heads against the wall of current content over and over with no victories or rewards, we would not have lasted long - which I see some of the folks in this thread are saying their guilds' are struggling with atm. In addition, although we were not one of the 'elite' guilds, a great many of us went out of our way to do research on our classes, and to spend endless hours camping augs, gear and clickies that would help to make us better raiders. In other words, although we were not yet an 'elite guild farming current content', we conducted ourselves like we were, knowing that every little bit helps and believing that someday the work would pay off. Here is one thing I don't ever recall anyone in my old guild saying:: "since we cannot beat current content, that means therefore that current content must be too hard and something should be done about it". Instead, we had fun beating the slightly older content we were capable of beating, we still couldn't wait to get our hands on those phat lewts (loot that was still better than the group gear that was available at the time), and we worked to try and make ourselves more worthy of the challenging content that had been provided to us. ...<and yes, the guild also suffered attrition to a more successful guild. It happens.>...
Personally, I'd like to see some raids added to the zones leading up to Arx. Seems a shame that everyone will basically rush through them and then never have a reason to go back.
Since we've been doing Arx for eighty years just have them be a tier up from Arx. At this point, I don't care about the story. Pretend we're going back and wiping the Combine and Doomscale from TDS or something. And the hardest raid is the dinosaur raid on Thuliasaur. Why have we not gotten a dinosaur raid. Why. Why.
This, right here .. Is one thing I would favor. Do not give "one offs" out to anyone .. Until they beat the entire expansion .. there an then it should only unlock 1 .. 1 off, then after downing that First one off, then .. an only then would / should the 2nd one off be unlocked. Thus granting all 7 raids. (yes you count them as all raids unless you can box it already, an if so please put up a vid of it )
One offs are once a week shots. You want to try your luck? Try it. I can't see a reason to have the loot pinata's hidden behind the last event. If anything, the people that need those loot pinata's haven't beat the last event yet. I do wish they hadn't nerfed one off one so hard though. It went from being a challenging event, to a gimme pretty much. Maybe it could have used a bit of a nerf, but it got nerfed so hard the care bear stare would be like a thermonuclear weapon hitting it nowadays.
