Raid Instancing vs. Early Kunark

If you're not socially awkward and join up with a crew of like minded people.

Actually wait, don't join up with like minded people. Join up with people that think the opposite of you. You'll perhaps see some targets then.

There has already been a vote taken. It was for 6 month unlocks.

They could have shortened it before launching the servers. Or by not offering such a long timeframe as an option at all. But offering a vote early on "time LOCKED progression" servers because a fraction of players at the top end have started bumping into another fraction of players and are whining about it says "We, as a development team, are a joke with no understanding of our game, how people play in it, and we have no ability to come up with solutions to problems that are nonissues for the majority of our players."

The original vote took input from people who didn't want anything to do with the TLP server. Or worse, they wanted to screw with the vote for other reasons.

This vote will take input only from people actually using the TLP server.


So at the end of the day, maybe we didn't want 6 months of classic.

It has nothing to do with the ethics of the development team. It doesn't affect you negatively. If you want us to stay classic, vote classic. If the vote passes, clearly we don't want classic. Deal with it.

It has everything to do with the ethics of the development team. Having a vote on something then having a revote when a desired outcome isn't had is what happens in South American banana republics. And will demonstrate an inability of this team to effectively dev this game. If having the vote before how and when they had it, they should have understood the difference. If 6 months is too long for classic (as I think it is) then they shouldn't have offered that as an option. They could have overridden the vote or made a special case for classic before launching the servers. But they didn't. Now, the fact that they are even considering capitulating to the whining of a small minority of players and offering an early vote on the single fundamental issue that affects every single player on a time LOCKED progression server demonstrates to me that these people running this game might not have the best handle on things. If they actually have the vote, it will demonstrate that they actually don't.

Agree with it disagree, every single player on these servers started here with the implicit understanding that there would be 6 months between content unlocks. Including you. YOU deal with it.

I doubt I'll have to deal with it. As Kunark is likely imminent.

However, the vote will yield a result that is a reflection of what people on the TLP want. I don't see a problem here. There's no harm in double checking what we want is there? If you're so adamant that Classic is the best solution (and let's pretend it is) then why are you worried we'll vote for Kunark?

No, I actually think six months of classic is too long. But I also think unlocking kunark early because a relative handful of people compared to the overall population are ready to move onto new content is ridiculous. And we all know that this is what this is. You will create some imperative playing off of the population issues but really what this is about is some people just want kunark early. Those people chose to play on servers with 6 month unlocks and now they want to change the plan mid stream. And it's ridiculous. Clearly, everyone playing on TLP wanted to play with 6 month unlocks because they started playing here with the understanding that that was the servers ruleset. Because it is. Saying that people on TLP didn't get to vote is simply an attempt to weasel a change to the ruleset. You voted by playing here. You were and are always free to chose not to.

Regardless, my biggest concern about this is changing the fundamental element of the server ruleset just because people whine about it. A small minority of people, at that. If they capitulate to this now they will have exactly zero integrity going forward. And we will be having this every couple of months.

No. They need to stick to what they set forth on server launch or they are admitting that they are the most inept team to ever dev this game. Come up with solutions to some issues, of course. But if they capitulate to the whining and have an early vote on time LOCKED progression servers they are stating loudly and clearly that they really don't know what they are doing.

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Definitely have the exact same concerns as you Massimo. However, I place a large percentage of the responsibility squarely on the parent corp directing these devs to spin on a dime and then shine that piece of not-silver up and hand it back, within a time-sensitive period in addition so there is even more pressure.

Duct tape and reactionary management because its obvious this hard-working dev staff is trying to produce with a shoestring budget. Frankenstein-ien project, really. While I still wonder what happened to Business Plan A, B and of course C, major props to those on this dev staff that are trying to march on under such draconian ruled corporate ownership.

Oh and by the way, for the record, I have six accounts to vote with. I also have six accounts to cancel if I don't like the outcome of the vote or the fact that they are allowing a vote at all.

And if I should decide on the latter I will be sure to detail why, in particular, on the exit survey. Suits love detailed feedback.

Please by all means quit. I'm sure you'll be missed.

If you're implying i'm one of the dreaded "mage armies" (I love that term) or a boxer, I'm not. I like to have the option at times for particular things but I generally don't. I'm just an old gamer of over 35 years and a longtime player of EverQuest who has supported this game since launch by spending a not insignificant amount of money on it in the past and now. My main account is days short of 14 years /played. But nice try at a strawman argument. Even if I were, the point remains the same.

And I'm simply giving feedback as a paying customer. A paying customer, in droves, at that. Because even considering an early vote that could fundamentally change the clearly stated ruleset of a server that is played on, specifically, for that ruleset is patently absurd. And demonstrates serious problems on the part of the people running this game, IMO. People should seriously consider if they want to pay money to a company that capitulates to calls for a knee-jerk fix to a problem that isn't even a problem to the vast majority of players that is really a thinly veiled excuse on the part of an extreme minority of players to get what they were never offered. Which, I might add, was a failure on past servers. And it won't fix the stated "problem." That's been demonstrated time and again, also.

Having a set LOCKED timeframe for expansions is the entire point of Time LOCKED Progression servers. Again, the fact that they are even considering putting up a new vote is an admission of complete and utter failure on the part of the dev team and people should seriously consider what it is exactly they are spending their money on in light of that.

If you want to play on a "classic" server that has kunark available and don't care to wait, there are options for you.

If they care about the health of the community why are they letting people in bigger guilds monopolize camps, train folks and in general ruin the game for everyone else.

Fun fact it's not just the big guilds doing these things. Stop believing the stupid spew that gets regurgitated on these forums.

Well a player from TL just showed me first hand on Ragefire what a BIG guild member is all about as he charmed a named mob we had pulled so we couldn't get a kill... as he was camping 3 named spawns.

Oh by the way making a smaller feeder guild under another name doesn't actually disassociate TL or does it? I mean the guy was still a TL guildee.

"As the big lead, the small follow" was a quote I was presented as a child that I always took to heart.

In the top position for the server, your guild is somewhat responsible for the example demonstrated to others of what is considered acceptable. Hold yourself to a high standard and you'll see it trickle down into the masses to a degree - allow toxic behavior and you'll see those toxic behaviors become more common.

So while you may not be responsible for all of it - which we all know TL certainly is not - your guild does represent the ideals of the server to a degree with what you allow to be done while under your name.

From what I've seen you've largely got a good batch of folks over there (although my sample size I know well is small - but even many of you I know only from the forums seem to have your head on straight - even you for your bluster come across like myself, stern and abusive at presenting your opinion and ideals but likely quite rational when it comes to gameplay) though - just a little weeding of the aberrant few could make you a shining beacon of good play potentially.

Technically, you are correct. But without a doubt, and griefing is most likely to be done by the largest/most successful guilds. The superiority complex is a human failing that we ALL share. Policing it can become a full time EQ job, but it's starts by choosing your members more carefully, and leading by example. Next step is ZERO tolerance. While I may not be the leader of a large raid guild like TL, I have been put in charge of a very large guild on Rathe. Last count was 1200 members/400 mains., grown from 200 members/25 mains in the last 2 years. I only throw those numbers out to show that I'm not talking out my about people being people. I have witnessed 5 serious griefing issues on Ragefire, 3 from seperate guilds (I won't name names, but they were 3 of the largest) an 2 from unguilded toons. Trying to level toons without the support of a large guild has become frustrating, even with the instancing. You may not like us filthy casuals, but you need us, so some sort of middle ground needs to be met.

*wavies at Obmidian* <--------A guild of fine individuals whom I'm proud to Guest Raid with.

Before ragefire was even decided, people speculated that a new TLP server should start with atleast kunark, and possibly velious ( on top of instances).

this is not new by any means.

Again, what you're failing to understand (or choosing to ignore) is that many people simply don't enjoy contesting a target, particularly via DPS-racing. They enjoy PvE, not racing other guilds. The don't want to play basketball with the big boys. They just want their own court to play on.

I'm so confused people are getting upset that there will be a new vote. I have no opinion on what happens to the ruleset (other than I want proper instancing with expedition/lockout/dynamic zone type system). Actually, if they could do this, I'd want to stay in classic even longer to give them the development time needed to make a system that works.

• First, didn't they say that they had only around 1,000 votes for the Ragefire ruleset? Don't we have many more players than that?
• Second, you didn't need a paid sub to vote, let alone play on TLP (you voted from live server in game)
• Lastly, wouldn't a vote with our actual and current players represent what the actual majority currently wants?

Anyone who is threatening DBG or complaining that there will be a vote is being extremely immature. This will give the current population a chance to vote on what they want. If they want more classic, they will vote for it. The only reason people are upset is they fear that what they voted for (or wanted) will not win and the rules will change.

This is not DBG's fault, and nobody should blame them; quite frankly, it's petty and immature. Nobody should be angry that a new vote will take place. And I believe (quote me if I'm wrong) DBG said multiple times that in no way or form was the prior vote to be indicative of what will actually happen when the server is live and into it's future. Re-votes happen, not to mention many people change their opinions/minds.

Isn't it almost time for someone to start up an "Unlock Velious - 3 Weeks Is A Really Really Long Time" thread?