Ragefire Rotation Discussion

A pleasure. But check out my updated version, it is cleaner, easier to read and more compact while including all of the same information. Same link I sent you before.

actually i meant all 4 questions to be of the first rotations but you came up with some good answers for the new one here

keep this at the top till a dev can weigh in.

Hopefully someone is emailing it to them.

Not a member of any current rotation guild but reading through the new proposed rotation, I will admit that I like it. I've played hardcore in my younger years and raided with top guilds but I do not have the dedication required to maintain what I feel is required of me in a top raiding guild. So I've defaulted to a younger, less dominating guild that aspires to eventually make it onto this rotation.

The time slots are a great idea because it gives everyone in every time zone (I live in Italy but play late EST time with friends) the opportunity to play the chance game at getting the opportunity for a spawn. With that said, I would like to throw out a suggested change that, based off reading these posts I think most will agree could be done:

Suggestion 1: Add a Block C rotation from 0000-0600. However instead of the 3 hours till FFA standard, make this a 1 hour window during this time block.

Reasoning:
1- It's already been said that people do not want Guild X to be allotted over 50% of the spawns. While I believe that is a pathetic way of saying "my guild sucks and can't beat yours so yall have to play nice", I also understand the concern. This change now only allots 25% of the day to the 100% FFA standard in the early-mid AM hours where most casuals are either sleeping/working/family. It alleviates the concern of 50% to Guild X while still keeping the traditional FFA/competitive standard that some guilds want.
2- This benefits the guilds who can play later on the weekends without hindering guilds who can play 24/7. For example, my play time varies by week, but generally every weekend I can add another 2-3 hours during the early AM hours because I know I don't have the same obligations that I do during Monday - Friday. Adding another 6 hour slot to the rotation would give guilds who have individuals like me the opportunity to maybe possibly get lucky on that boss spawn and snag a victory.
3- The 3 hours before FFA was a compromise from the top guild, it has been said and is known that the top guilds wanted a 1 hour engagement before FFA. While the discussion last Friday was agreed upon 3 hours for the prime time hours, I don't foresee many guilds wanting to sit on a boss from 0100-0400 hours in the morning. Maybe 0200 but not many will push it past that. So the compromise comes from the other side this time. The non-24/7 guilds get to have another rotation time slot, but also must exchange the 3 hour window to a 1 hour window (only during the Block C 0000-0600 time)

Might want to get permission from Holly about that. Remember casuals shouldn't kill dragons.

And RoE is showing a very different side to themselves when they came and played nice with RoP in Sky when we were farming Spiroc Lord for hours and hours (and we helped them kill faster so we both got more spawns).

Anyways - the new proposed rotation is more fair and doesn't favor anyone. Again - if you/Apok/RoE think that having 12 hours of FFA is any different than your guild being on the rotation, and your turn, when the boss spawns at 10AM on a weekday, I dunno what to tell you. If you had enough for them on rotation at that day/time, you'd have enough to FFA - so go do it.

Breeze said in this very thread, in reply to me even, that RoE has 250+ L50 toons...where were all of them last night, when CT was up, in an FFA slot, during North American primetime, and TL got CT dead with their 60ish? I mean, if RoE even had half, hell, even a third, of 250+ online, they could have gotten CT from TL. Breeze was even in Fear for part of the afternoon/evening - she came by and said hi to our armor farm raid there.

You're complaining about semantics.

So you killed Bee's?

Not sure what this has to do with anything. If you're going to comment here, please try to make it constructive -- can you explain to us why you don't think the new rotation is fair? The rest of us are doing our best to get guilds (especially the Euros) onto a rotation that works.

All we've heard from Apokalypsis is "TL will get the majority of the mobs." But this doesn't take into account that the European guilds would get almost no mobs on the current rotation. Do you not see this as a problem? I'm more than willing to explain this to you in more detail if there's something you're having trouble understanding. Shoot me a PM.

This new proposal is a compromise, and Apokalypsis seems unwilling to change anything at all. It makes coming up with new plans very difficult.

I've killed bees, both old and new. I'm not sure what you're saying that makes me an authority on but just tell me what your question is and I'll try to answer.

I've tweeted holly and roshen about this current situation. And will tweet them everyday until they do something, or at least acknowledge it.

Well, DBG can still theoretically say no. But, past that, it's up to players here.

Breeze was there when CT was up as well. She interfered with our draco pull and some of the trash pulls. I think something is wrong with this girl.

Before the rotation? Nope - Obviously reading is difficult for you - as I explained a page or two back, when we farmed keys, either stuff was down...or, we got leapfrogged and the key mobs killed before we got to the island.

As such, no, we didn't kill bees pre-revamp - though we could have, as could have any of a number of other guilds....same with killing Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox, EoV, etc.

So if you, along with RoE, are considering killing pre-revamp bosses that were cockblocked from most of the server as criteria for getting into your current rotation, I dunno what to tell you.

Yup! We'll see you in game with a new rotation soon

Yep. She was charming mobs during pulls. Cute.

Thanks for posting, glad you liked the time block.

Other time blocks could be done, but I think it might be a good idea to see how the FFA plays out first. I actually think there might be some better options than just adding another rotation and walled garden though.

One of the things you have to think about in a rotation though is what behaviors you give incentives to. People probably just think that TLG is some TL ploy, but the splinter behavior is very predictable. The current rotation went from 100% FFA/competition to 25% (and actually less since gatekeepers eat up FFA slots - possibly as low as 0%). The problem is that when you remove incentives for people to stay in a competitive guild with 24hr 10minute-mobilizations and not having to worry about people being online within 10minutes....is that they start thinking about loot maximization.

The optimal loot setup in a completely sheltered environment is going to be the smallest amount of people necessary to kill the mob. While bot guilds are the first symptom of this analysis, they wouldn't be the last. At some point, for mobs that take 40-45 to kill (or 20 pet classes), if you have 3hrs of time (or even 1hr tbh), you're not going to hold people in a guild with 150+ mains. You're going to end up with the boxers splintering, and then the regular members doing so. Boxers are the first, but they won't be the last when you remove all FFA/competitive incentives (or when you relegate it to a mere footnote like Apok did). In fact, I came from P99, where I was a member of a guild that would take 14-18ppl to kill raid mobs others took 40-60 to kill. It was a skill/challenge thing, but it also optimized our loot/member ratio. This is not rocket science or some sort of mass conspiracy, it's just how people play the game and evaluate their time/benefit/enjoyment. CAF suddenly deciding to enter raiding is also an example - you created protection for them - they want in - and they're definitely not TL fans. I believe that this anti-splintering is a consideration in the FFA period.

Additionally, there's several styles of play in raiding guilds. More casual play is one of them. Competitive raiding is one of them. The time slots have zero FFA in people's primetimes, as a concession to try to optimize the # of raid mobs that are seen when the most people on the server are playing. Frankly, our competitive primetime-only raiders (and yes we have alot) got hurt by this, but it was recognition that there are far more 6pm-9pm sorta raiders who still want a shot at a dragon/god without competition. What I'm trying to say is that, people at the summit seemed to recognize that all playstyles are important, and one should not be dominant. This was a consideration with the FFA period too I'd imagine.

So the end result is that 8 guilds, ranging from 24hr guilds to more casual guilds, weighed everything and decided to go with the above proposal initially. It's all just a first draft, but the decisions on how it was organized was not made willy-nilly, it was made with an eye to respecting guilds playstyles, and at looking at what behaviors had incentives. It's also open to change in the future if something isn't a good fit.

Guess I just sorta wanted to ask that people look at play-styles and what incentives you build when looking at things. Some people like to complain about splinter guilds and bot guilds and competition, but don't often step back to ask why those things exist or result from the policies they advocate for, or can even be good things at times.

I was on my way to watch you kill CT and the Gorilla aggroed on me. I was at 9% health and then Breeze charmed it off of me. Soooo yeah..... Do you guys lie much?

The gorilla was not the only thing she interfered with.

Which one of the three things on track did she mess with? CT? A gorilla? or Necro? She was standing invis next to two Remnant of Prexus players watching you kill Necro when she charmed the gorilla off me. MY money is on you lying.