Question regarding the play nice policy as it relates to in game harassment

2. You may not harass others.

Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the Game Master involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed.

What exactly does this mean to you and how you play this game. Is this limited to only training players? 21 year everquest veteran and having experienced my first TLP server ever this thin veiled line seems to be called into question very often. I would just like the opinion of the players who have been around, playing this game to try and define this behavior. Can a player go around doing anything they want to who ever they want and not adhere to any type of recourse, or is their reputation on the server the only recourse that can be taken against them.

Say you have a new player starting off everquest after years away and they are streaming on twitch. Super excited to play a game that they have found memories of. Would it be considered harassment to follow that player around and kill everything they touch to deny the player the experience to level up?

On the TLP servers you see a lot of these type of behaviors and I was wondering does this exist on the non TLP servers as well? To me this is pretty clear cut and that player would absolutely feel harassed.

This is currently happening to me and after petitioning and reporting the response I had received is as follows,

Greetings Adventurer,

I wanted to get back to you involving your incident related to a "kill-steal" today. Unfortunately, this is not a violation of the Rules of Conduct. Please feel free to contest any NPC in any zone of EverQuest as we already have a built-in system for determining loot rights. The player who does the most DPS to the enemy during the course of its engagement will receive the loot rights to the corpse. The community-term, 'Camps', is not recognized by Daybreak games as it upholds an unrealistic standard on the definition of fair-play gaming experience.

Please feel free to intervene all NPC's you desire to kill and loot, even if other players waiting for an enemy to spawn. The loot rights to the corpse will be awarded to the player who delivered the most damage per second to the enemy.

"There will be no first in force or engage rules arbitrated or enforced by a Game Master or Guide on any server. We believe players can resolve disputes about camps and raid bosses between each other. Game Masters and Guides will not help negotiate these disputes between players and guilds."

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to let us know.
Regards,
GM Omilmare
Daybreak Game Company, LLC


I understand that everquest doesn't recognize camps but when someone seeks out your location, and kills every mob that you go to attack, denying you the ability to even level up every time you log in wouldn't that be considered harassment?
What are your thoughts?

Thank you

Without getting into details or a debate which runs afoul of forum rules.

DPS race is the standard and approved gameplay. (I personally dislike it but it is what it is; though, most players are understanding enough to honor camps). And yes, this may include long camps or respawns. My advice: come back another time of day or another day. Also, try to communicate in constructive manner (i.e. "Hey, mind if I take the camp after you're done?").

If the player insists on staying on the camp and interferes with reasonable expectations (e.g. returns multiple days for 8+ hour periods or follows you all over the zone), you can probably ask a GM to intervene (at least to check). In this instance, you should also show a pattern or consistency of problems (i.e. griefing, threats, stalking).

https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001992607-How-do-I-report-toxic-behavior-in-EverQuest-#:~:text=To report a violation of,harassment as it is happening.

I would even recommend steering clear of certain TLPs and play on other servers (Vaniki, Live) if you disagree with DPS race in most-all instances.

Is this DPS race term just an excuse for players to use to grief people with a blanket statement as well as an excuse for customer service to not have to do anything regarding the underlining behavior that is prompting this? I can understand dps race on a named camp or an epic mob but if someone is going into a camp that has nothing to benefit them and dps racing a group of low lvl players is that right?

Wouldn't this be considered disrupting my game play which is also against the terms of service so the play nice policy contradicts itself providing nothing but grey areas that customer service can use to neglect doing their actual duties?

My best course of action is to log out and not play this game, how exactly does that benefit anybody. Maybe I can petition for stalking as this player is running around auto following me.

Without a philosophical discussion that will devolve the thread.

Report them if they are stalking/following you. Provide evidence. This does not fall under the DPS race umbrella unless this is a very exceptional circumstance such as Rathe Mountains Giants (limited, high value spawns).

If you fundamentally disagree with DPS race, I would strongly suggest playing on a Live server.

The live servers are nothing like the TLP servers. People don't KS mobs for the most part. They'll share a camp if things are needed for a particular task. They'll invite a person to a raid for a Hunter update or even let them kill the named.

No. You’re still able to play the game (perhaps just not in the way you want). Disrupting gameplay would be intentionally crashing zones, killing quest givers so you can’t get/turn in quests, and training you so you’re constantly dying and unable to actually play.

Now if it’s actually griefing you, I.E. following you around and only killing mobs you’re interacting with, then yes. And as others have said, get evidence of it and report them with said evidence. Unfortunately, me coming into your camp and killing the same mobs you are (and me getting credit for the kills) is not against the rules. It’s an open world and all mobs are free game. Doesn’t seem fair at times, but it is what it is.

The best way to accomplish this would be to get video evidence of the player following me around attacking the mobs that I do?

Probably, video evidence uploaded to a well-known site and sent by link (instructions quoted above).

I have used /report and screenshots in the extremely rare instances of intentional training.

These are from personal experience - not on TLP -

First time I reported it was for "Harassment" Player got upset at me for something (go figure! ) and every time I would log in, within a few minutes then he would start sending me messages of a sexual nature and bug me the entire time I was in game. I told him to stop and put him on ignore. He created new character. Rinse, repeat daily for about 2 weeks. I reported him for sexual harassment. Those characters are no longer in game. Dunno if he made a new one

Second issue was filed as "Disrupting Gameplay" A few years ago if you popped a Jester in the guild lobby it would never go away and just keep spamming and repeating its script of jokes. Because the lobby does not allow your buffs to count down and the Jester is a buff of sorts. It was very annoying when 5 or 10 players would pop the jesters as a joke.

I complained in game and in chat. Some player felt the same, others didn't. I filed a petition that the fact that the Jester kept saying his script for hours without interruption that it was disrupting gameplay as there was no way to block him or /ignore him. I included a couple screen shots with time stamps that showed him talking for hours.

Within a few days the Jester was altered and no longer spams his script for more than a few minutes in lobby. Some players tried logging in after the fix and said it was never that way. That is why you always want screen shots. With the date and time stamp on them.

In your case, OP, I would not say they are denying you a chance to level up. There are far more mobs in the game for both you and the other player to kill.

If you were to put your date and times stamps on, go to not so popular zones, kill stuff under level and if you can show him at each and every one of those mobs then report him as a stalker. You said you were showing it online so not sure if you included in that in your original petition.

But that original petition went in as "camp or mob stealing" and their answer was correct. That is why I posted the two types. One is pure player harassment and the other is disrupting the game for everyone.

The maybe best way to get this settled is to get video evidence of the perp following you around and harassing you but NOT mentioning the kills.

The kills are perfectly legal. The harassment is not

I stopped reading after seeing the word TLP.

I hope you are able to overcome this issue so that you are able to enjoy the game

One more thing to take away from all of this: at its core (and the Devs seem to be holding to that core [good for them]), EQ is a grouping game. Which is why the DPS race is allowed to exist.

Solo, it would seem unfair to say tanks, healers, and some support classes (enchanters/bards), but you were never meant to be out there by yourself. Does it happen, yes. Is it the recommended/preferred playstyle the game is based around? No. Can one player still out DPS 2-3 players? Depending on skill/level, yes. Likeliness of it happening, minimal.

This isn’t to say you’re not allowed to be frustrated or be here asking what you can do or what can be done about it. Just a little something to be kept in the back of your mind

My original petition was regarding the player showing up regardless of where I go, killing everything I touch and he streams it on twitch bragging about griefing me with his 5 characters. I have reported him on twitch, reported him here, not sure what else to do. Maybe this game just isn't for me any more. 21 years and I have never seen this type of behavior on everquest that was left unchecked, and nothing to do about it even after my report and petition.

There's some evidence. Include the Twitch link in your petition. Contact a Community Manager (Angeliana or Accendo) with the information.

Fixed it for you. Many players avoid TLPs because of the perceived 'toxicity'.

By playing on Live, you won't be dealing with or patronizing that crowd.

Leave out the part about him killing everything because they speed read and that is the main point they see and respond to

Have you tried going ANONYMOUS?

Glad I have never tried TLP it sounds atrocious.

My experience with TLP was extraordinary rudeness, hateful attitudes, and derision. If this is people's cup of tea, have at it, but I won't go back.

Thanks for the support and I have left that server sold off all my gear and walked away with 16 kronos. Never in my life have I seen so many unemployed Everquest players living off the Everquest like its their main source of income. Its terrible, I will never play another TLP again. From the players obviously cheating (15+ boxing common really you have 15 laptops next to each other? Lets be real here) to the toxic players training without any type of repercussion, these servers deserve the player base that they have on it. Back to Zek I go.

Thanks again for the perspective that a lot of you shared with me, and your experiences on these servers.

Never thought I would see the day when someone calls a TLP server rude and toxic and decides a better server is Zek. Am I the only one that sees irony and humor in this statement?