PvP/True Box/Non Instanced = Next TLP Server?

I'm not sure where everyone gets these tiny numbers.

Red and blue players have a very different way of connecting with the game. Just read Gordon Walton's comments on how the playerbase of Ultima Online changed when he instituted PvE gameplay. They got a lot more subscribers, but those subscribers didn't stick around. The people who preferred continuing to PvP were fewer in number, but they were apparently the top-notch no-lifers on which the financial stability of the game continued to depend.

I'd be willing to take a bet--a money bet--that a new red live server (of any ruleset) would attract an initial population comparable to or exceeding the population of a new blue server. Whether those numbers last or not would depend on how the server's peculiar social character evolved, since red does host some of the worst, most 'piss-in-the-sandbox' folks in the EQ community. (This is on DBG. They would have to, for example, man up and actually break third party cheat programs on this server, which they are fully capable of doing). But I can guarantee it would attract a healthy amount of people at the beginning. Red players don't quit (or 'divorce' the game, as Gordon Walton puts it). They're always waiting for the next thing.

You mean all the statistics posted by players are not factual?

Yes. I mean I literally don't know where people are getting 'a dozen' or '100' from.

You can go by Zek, I guess, but people don't really know what the pop is there, since everyone is always anon and off on their own, and anyway it's pretty damn healthy considering how neglected their ruleset is.

Maybe people are going by P99 Red? But judging the subscribership of the PvP playstyle by P99 Red is like judging the subscribership of progression servers by Vulak (or of standard servers by Trakanon). In every ruleset, some servers are going to do better than others. P99 Red happened to attract some pretty crummy players (and a few good ones), and the P99 staff very publicly washed their hands of it at a very early stage in its development.

Is there a chance a new red server on live has the same problems? Of course, just like there's a chance a new progression sever would have the same problems as Vulak (a la Lockjaw at the moment).

At least admit you don't know, ya know?

Logic has no place on these boards!

I realize that PVE players seem to think PVP servers are complete garbage prob due to a not so fun incident on one of the previous servers, but I agree with what MoveFastRZ is saying. Sullon Zek was some of the funnest years I spent in EQ and I still have a dozen friends that were guildies I made from that time frame.

Said it before, prob will say it again. Current TLP servers other than Phinny play very similar to PVP servers with their DPS races and such. The player contrived facts are great as well, I guess if you post in on the forums it must be fact?

I would venture a guess if Daybreak made a pvp server, it would be an Event server to test the waters so to speak. If its a dud, no harm cuz event server. If its wildly popular, maybe they would roll out a Red Phinny server. Needs a dope name tho...

How about The Red Shirts server?

I think making a PvP event server is a good idea to test the waters. I don't like PvP at all, but it's a good test to see how many people do want such a server.

Event server would be fun. I don't know if it would truly predict possible long-term success of future servers, though. On PvP servers, the quality of the experience is HIGHLY contingent on the quality of the players. Hence Zek is actually pretty fun these days, because the bottom line is <Wudan> are good people. But in the past, when there have been a lot of low quality players (like all the guys who were in <Vendetta> some years ago) it has been less fun. Red99 is way at the bottom end, in terms of average player quality.

So it's always possible you get a good bunch on the event server, and then the morons move in when you launch a real live server. Or vice versa (morons on the event server when the live server could have turned out fine).

I can't really say why some servers get better players than other. No pattern yet I notice. (For example, Red99 has pretty strong anti-RMT enforcement and anti-cheat measures, but that didn't keep the worst players away one bit). But there are probably certain things you can do to discourage the Quake kiddies, if you were to really think about it.

would support this with 50 others i play with

I'm sure the case study over at p1999 is a good one, about 1/10th the population for a red server.
and that's free

90% of the everquest community don't want to play on a shady server or are 2 stupid to figure how to log in

first year pop was around 1k .. not bad for a server with 0 promotion and does not allow 2boxing

if you build it they will come

good idea

do something like quarm with pvp

Like I said, claiming Red99 proves PvP servers don't have an audience is like saying Vulak proves progression servers don't have an audience or Trakanon proves that standard ruleset doesn't have an audience. You're judging an entire ruleset by the 1 server (out of 6 plus) that failed hardest.

I side with most/half here wanting a PvP TLP or event server. I've played blue mostly, but have also spent time on pvp servers. PvE is mindnumbingly easy/repetitive/and boring, especially in EQ and even more so on this new Phinigel server. Most popular MMOs have a PvP element to them now, whether by force or by choice there is still an option. I would even consider paying cash for a "Founder's Pack" or whatever to get a server like this going. EQ was my "first love" as far as MMOs go and I've always come back. Next time around I'm only coming back for some new PvP element in the game. I could say it's because "it makes the game feel more real", but really I like slayin folks who piss me off, as do a lot of other people.

Oh is there is a high population pvp server I'm unaware of that is classic EQ somewhere else that proves hints that pvp = highly viable?

Yep. It's called Zek, and it's got more people on it than several of the blue servers. This in spite of the fact that its ruleset has been effectively abandoned by management for a decade. Two raiding guilds, always plenty of people in PoK, etc. Stop by anytime.

As for the 'classic' part -- it's never been tried on Live. Your bitterness toward the notion of it being tried is a little weird, but to each their own, I guess. It keeps threads like these bumped, anyway.

and 0 pvp

You must not have your PvP messages filtered to go to a window you read. There's lots of PvP on Zek, daily.

he same 20-40 people killing each other is not lots of pvp .... red99 has lots of pvp also in that case

making a event pvp server or progression pvp server would be the end of zek/red99
( thats a good thing for sony if they want to make money )

It's two guilds, and every once in a while they add a new face, but no, it's not like you've got a steady supply of fresh players. Just a fair-sized rotating cast of people who play, quit, play, quit, etc.

Agreed it would be the end of Red99 and Zek. I think most people on both servers would welcome that. Whether the new server wears out its welcome depends on who plays there and how they play. Like you said, initial Red99 pop was pretty high, and there were a lot of quality players, but it was the real morons who stuck around.

Leaderboards and yellow text (i.e. serverwide PvP notifications) have got to go, IMHO. They encourage the Quake kiddies to stick around. Rep is better when it's earned without that kind of nonsense, anyway, and if you know the history behind how stuff like that gets implemented, it's always the devs saying, "What's the least amount of effort we can put in to develop something we can call a PvP-specific feature in the patch notes?"

if you build it
they will come