Daybreak, thank you for working with the community and enforcing the Sky rotation. Like many, at first I was incensed that the big guilds could squeeze out the small guilds and groups from what is groupable content, but I didn't see the big picture. After reading dozens of forum posts and complaints, I want you to know you are doing it RIGHT! Thanks again. The way I now see it; one particular guild could lock down the entire Plane of Sky for all of classic and no other player on the entirety of Lockjaw would ever see a drop or a key past a certain island (without their "permission.") There are really only 2 choices: "allow that" or "don't allow that." DBG sided with the players and chose "don't allow that." The rotation is not perfect. There are pockets and groups of people that feel treated a bit "unfairly" by it; however, no matter how "wronged" their particular situation, the rotation is infinitely superior to watching 1 guild under 1 leader dictate the end game raid zone to the detriment of every other player on Lockjaw.
Wow, someone who is willing to at least acknowledge the existence of other people! Gold star for you.
Your title may be a little misleading because the only way a "truly unguilded player" can access any of plane of sky, or even those in small guilds is to do a deal with one of the 8 current guilds so you can go up there and kill mobs that otherwise wouldn't be killed, or the majority of their drops would be left to rot. The current system does seem to leave a huge amount of mobs on short respawn timers not being killed. Or you can become a "guild" either formerly or as an open raid with a fixed roster with no cross-over, get a qualifier day, kill Spiroc Lord and have your own slice... which is forever becoming smaller. But then you are not a "truly unguilded player" Have you noticed in the last month there have been no threads complaining about Plane of Sky on Ragefire? They have no rotation for Plane of Sky - surely there should be even more people complaining? I have absolutely no problems with how the rotation is being handled on any other raid targets I have no problems with Plane of Sky being rotated I have consistently had a problem with the Plane of Sky rotation specifically excluding "truly unguilded players" and small guilds for over a month - it is a pretty big pocket of players, maybe 50% or more of the server population Lets not get into mediation / punishment but there are issues there too
First you need to start with what defines a "raid", right now it's what, 36 players and a website? First couple of islands are doable with 3 groups so if they aren't recognized as a raid and can't kill spiroc lord, then they don't deserve to be in sky. That's the current ruleset, so it's either join a hundred man zerg guild or wait until next expansion, or two........makes perfect sense!
Seriously Croak your diatribes are pure sophistry at this point and the slight sympathy I may have had for a few of your points a good while ago has quickly eroded. Your approach to topics that upset you is counter productive and its energy channeled better pretty much anywhere else. Get a job, or a new hobby, or...(and I would love to see this)...go play the game. Don't spend this much of your time on the forums or in the channels being unhappy. Do quests and make things (I hear you make fine idols). And stop obsessing (because that is what it is now) over one or two zones that do not define this game. You know how to play this game...so heck if LJ is too limiting for you... go tear it up on Ragefire, or Live or even the new TLP server in a few months. Whatever it is...geez....just do something that makes you happy man, cuz this ain't it. Whatever you hoped to achieve by being a self-appointed spokesperson on this issue has not materialized and it isn't going to. I'm no telling you what you cannot do...I am telling you that you should be able to read the writing on the wall you are building around yourself. It's gonna be lonely in there man. All that being said...Thank you Nuttmeg for bringing a positive light back into the forums and for reminding people that for those of us who spend more time playing than posting...DBG is trying to improve things and while it's not perfect, it is a lot lot lot better than what was about to be the alternative. I believe they aren't done trying to fix things...but I doubt these forums will be the place they seek wisdom...so most of us will just go kill stuff, make stuff, and quest stuff and turn off the general channel when some people begin to demagogue the issues. Peace out folks (and thanks again Nuttmeg)
If you just go by the written rule then all kinds of things are possible. You could go to sky on a qualifier day with 50 toons, and grab 15 slices of sky days, and 15 votes on the council. I am not suggesting anyone does it, it is ludicrous, and would be lawyered around - it might require instantly dissolving the rotation and reforming though. DBG wouldn't side with the 15 1-person "raids" Once you are qualified you can have an argument with 35 people and kick them out of your "guild" There probably should be some kind of re-qualification clause, but even then that slice if cake is going to start to become very small.
Most people are only aware of the rules for Sky because of these threads, and they invariably get closed down because of trolling and in-constructive posts and circular arguments. When they get merged with other similar posts, you end up with a post that isn't specific to the topic. It makes it useless from an information retrieval perspective. I happen to know a fair amount of how search engines work... if someone searches google or even the DBG forum with the keywords "plane of sky unguilded player" or "posky unguilded player" there is a fair chance this thread might show up. If the original post contains factual errors, they need to be pointed out really early, because 90% of people won't scroll down very far. I am aware of the time I am "wasting", and all the personal attacks I have endured. Unlike many, I try to be constructive every single time I post, which takes an even larger time investment, but those are the forum rules. I would be happy to just be selling idols, enjoying the game etc. Last night I even tried to sell a few idols and then had to explain to multiple rotation guild members "why they are being punished because of the decisions of their guild leaders" - it is funny how many rotation guild members aren't even aware there are any issues with the Sky rotation.
Thanks for the kind words Zurd. I think we have a good community that has the ability to step back and look at the big picture. It's unfortunate that the very vocal minority, with a me me me attitude refuses to consider the greater good. Here's to you man.
let "r" stand for number of players in raid. in order for r to be valid, r >= 36 thus, if r=35, the raid is not valid
When someone insults someone else it says more about the kind of person they are rather than the kind of person they are insulting is.
