POP Era Time raid parses

Here's a bunch of parse data from the past month or so of potime. I used CT + Bertox because those are easiest to get good parse data because there's no switching to adds/etc. See for yourself.

Cazic-Thule in 176s, 2005k @11392 | Roek 110k@(767 in 143s) | Hobbles + pets 97005@(617 in 157s) | Scumwitagun + pets 82778@(551 in 150s) | Ramminar 81217@(523 in 155s) | Amenhotep + pets 79383@(547 in 145s) | Tokugawa 78559@(516 in 152s) | Spinepricer + pets 76427@(527 in 145s) | Bolinas 72427@(461 in 157s) | Stealmore 67311@(487 in 138s) | Kikshaiz 66795@(454 in 147s)

Ranger #1 DPS (used trueshot)... Monk, Rog, Monk, Rog, Monk, Rog, Monk, Rog, Monk
--
Bertoxxulous in 183s, 2008k @10972 | Tokugawa 103k@(615 in 167s) | Scumwitagun + pets 92018@(605 in 152s) | Amenhotep + pets 88607@(571 in 155s) | Hobbles + pets 80523@(497 in 162s) | Roek 76350@(505 in 151s) {G} | Bolinas 72832@(446 in 163s) | Ramminar 69478@(431 in 161s) | Morthose 67749@(415 in 163s) | Flatfoot 67414@(499 in 135s) | Stealmore 65068@(464 in 140s)

Monk, Rog, Rog, Monk, Ranger, Monk, Monk, Ranger, Monk, Rog

Cazic-Thule in 156s, 2001k @12827 | Hobbles + pets 87953@563 (637 in 138s) | Oxyatol + pets 84791@543 (605 in 140s) | Scumwitagun + pets 78178@501 (587 in 133s) | Tokugawa 77322@495 (556 in 139s) | Rivix 72925@467 (506 in 144s) | Roek 72428@464 (536 in 135s) | Spinepricer + pets 68676@440 (520 in 132s) | Morrigana 65006@416 (580 in 112s) | Corsein 64519@413 (492 in 131s) | Bolinas 64410@412 (487 in 132s)

Monk, Monk, Rog, Monk, Ranger, Ranger, Rog, Wizard, Rog, Monk
--
Bertoxxulous in 176s, 2006k @11397 | Tokugawa 96300@547 (659 in 146s) | Roek 95868@544 (639 in 150s) | Scumwitagun + pets 82675@469 (540 in 153s) | Hobbles + pets 78890@448 (515 in 153s) | Oxyatol + pets 78493@445 (503 in 156s) | Flatfoot 78250@444 (508 in 154s) | Stealmore 73380@416 (520 in 141s) | Spinepricer 72650@412 (490 in 148s) | Rivix 68023@386 (427 in 159s) | Bolinas 67287@382 (434 in 155s)

Monk, Ranger, Rog, Monk, Monk, Monk, Rog, Rog, Ranger, Monk

CAZIC: /GU Cazic-Thule in 167s, 2002k @11989 | Oxyatol 87371 | Amenhotep + pets 78551 | Hobbles + pets 74883 | Tokugawa 74012 | Stealmore 68731 | Pocahontas 66761 | Morthose 65721 | Spinepricer + pets 64706 | Roek 63813 | Monklorce 59697 | Patchet 56990 | Ramminar 53642 | Kenadwen 53244 | Goddog 49822 | Toksik + pets 46225

Monk, Rog, MOnk, Monk, Rog, Ranger, ranger, Rog, Ranger, Monk, Ranger, Monk, Ranger, Ranger

BERTOX: /GU Bertoxxulous in 182s, 2008k @11034 | Roek 92418 | Amenhotep + pets 87972 | Ramminar 87129 {G} | Tokugawa 85598 | Pocahontas 73310 | Stealmore 73218 | Hobbles + pets 71404 | Spinepricer + pets 68173 | Oxyatol 66595 | Monklorce 65804 | Bolinas 63801 | Patchet 61041 | Morthose 54793 | Toksik + pets 52576 | Kenadwen 50654

Ranger (TS), Rog, Monk, Monk, Ranger, Rog, Monk, Rog, Monk, Monk, Monk, Ranger, Ranger

Cazic-Thule** in 137s, 1994k @14555 | Hobbles + pets 70862@517 (662 in 107s) | Pocahontas 70776@516 (626 in 113s) | Ghoostface 68031@496 (635 in 107s) | Tokugawa 62644@457 (564 in 111s) | Scumwitagun + pets 59991@437 (540 in 111s) | Flatfoot 59635@435 (532 in 112s) | Spinepricer + pets 59471@434 (540 in 110s) | Amenhotep + pets 57557@420 (553 in 104s) | Bolinas 54998@401 (482 in 114s) | Roek 53712@392 (492 in 109s)

Monk, Ranger, Monk, Monk, Rog, Monk, Rog, Rog, Monk, Ranger
--
Bertoxxulous in 157s, 1999k @12729 | Autter 89592@570 (673 in 133s) | Scumwitagun + pets 83169@529 (634 in 131s) | Tokugawa 66975@426 (496 in 135s) | Hobbles + pets 59643@379 (451 in 132s) | Amenhotep + pets 57736@367 (444 in 130s) | Pocahontas 57492@366 (445 in 129s) | Rivix 56816@361 (430 in 132s) | Kikshaiz 56728@361 (480 in 118s) | Ghoostface 55595@354 (430 in 129s) | Flatfoot 55558@353 (417 in 133s)

Ranger, Rog, Monk, Monk, Rog, Ranger, Ranger, Monk, Monk, Monk

i'll take my years of raiding potime every single week over your "back in my day on phinny" argument.

He does have a point though. The rangers you play with may not be bad per se, but they may not know or they may not put the effort into maxing their dps.

I see this all the time. I main a necro, I have for 21 years. I usually see other necros clustered around a certain amount of dps and mine is usually way higher. According to your logic I can't believe my own eyes and have to disregard the reality that my parses for whatever reason are higher (I know the reason, its skill).

Its a simple fact most people are average and most people are lazy and take the path of least resistance. If he says he does more dps than the rangers you know I believe him. He probably puts the effort in to know his class inside and out and take advantage of it. Gear and aa are only one part of the equation, someone with situational awareness, and active on the keys will always have better results. The people who can do that are outliers in my experience.

I love how whenever a Ranger wins the parse you say "used" trueshot, but never include if monks/rogues used their discs, it's almost like you have an illogical bias.

I love how you pick CT/Bert when those are the 2 worst fights for Rangers.
I love how you use single target fights because "accurate" parses. Bert is the worst fight in time for Rangers because of early spells resists. Monks/Rogues need to stand in fear range on Inny, Rangers don't. Monks/Rogue have actual ago concerns on the Zeks bros. Monks/Rogues lose up time when they switch targets on any fights with adds, Rangers never lose uptime because they're ranged. Rangers also get to mutlidot on fights with adds and this is a boost to overall damage output in a fight. Or how a Ranger can off tank an adds with a 200+ damage shield again increasing the damage output they do

Would love to see your Rangers damage breakdown, buffs, spellcast logs and gear. Could tell you exactly what they're doing wrong.

those rangers are DPS fiends. on phinny i'm sure you didnt raid long enough in time in ERA for most characters to be Bis in every slot. it's more than likely that having less than BiS in slot on every item slot and weapon slot benefits rangers over monks and rogues. However since we have been raiding time for YEARS in era many characters are maxed out, these are the numbers, The numbers are the numbers.

depends what op means by in era I guess, like in era for a month or in era for 3 years are potentially different scenes

the saying numbers dont lie but liars use numbers often comes to mind with parses, like you can always find singular fights where some classes are advantaged or disadvantaged, or players just not playing to their full potential

maybe a full raid parse would be more accurate to take in some variables

So the thing is back on phinny during GoD Hybrid classes got nerfed. Extended duration AAs used to work on disc. So Trueshot used to last forever during luclin/PoP and rangers would always top the parse. So you both could be right.

Parses can be misleading because what they don't take into account is:

1. Who used Discs and who didn't use Discs.
2. Who had buffs and who didn't have buffs.
3. Who was BiS and who wasn't BiS.
4. Who was actually trying to maximize their dps on a parse, and who was semi-afk watching netflix with kids running wild around them.
5. Who had a less than optimal group healer and had to pull back from dpsing a couple times
6. Who was being parsed on an encounter resistant against ones class, and who was who being parsed on an encounter beneficial to ones class.

These type of threads need to analyze data obtained in controlled enviroments to truly be accurate. As WaitingForMoreEQ mentioned above:

Why not make a note of when every class used discs and not just rangers? That would provide much needed context for this discussion.

every fight has pro's and cons to all classes............. on a side note I know several people in Xeris's guild and there is one ranger that comes in 1st or second on more than 95% of every raids combined parse. although maybe their monks and rogues sucks.

combined parses work better than picking and choosing and also who cares if they disc or dont disc or cast this or cast that, the numbers speak for themselves

The numbers you guys posted are silly. They're comparing monks discing to Rangers standard DPS. I can tell you that the majority of your Rangers are definitely doing something wrong, aren't BiS or aren't getting aDPS

Was in AoS we had multiple good players of every class hitting full BiS before GoD launched.

So I wanna say best DPS would be brushfire frozen wind icewind being close for bard overhaste and kicking the gods depending on the boss right?

Also, Call of flame. Keep Drifting Death, Fireswarm up. Swap targets before MA on adds so you dont lose arrows in flight, multi dot on adds that live long enough like Inny. You can kick all the bosses, use fearless on inny after fearless outrange the fear, you need Grow/some illusions to kick some of the bosses while bowing. Click GoTF at the right times. Use Arrows leaving your toons body as a swing timer and cast spells ASAP.

Most importantly make sure your Shamans and Beastlords don't believe monk lies and you get Fero/Avatar Prior.

They've actually buffed rangers since then. Trueshot went from 3 mins to 2mins. But the Druid dot consolidation buffed Ranger DPS overall

not sure what this means, but every time raid on agnarr is in era.

What they mean is if your in time for 3-5 months your gear is gonna be good but if your in time for 3 years your in theory gonna be in full time gear with BiS everything.

Reason I mentioned Trueshot is because that's a once per raid disc. Ranger trueshotting is going to be the highest DPS in pop/ldon era. Reason I don't note monk/rog discs is because they can be used basically once every other fight essentially.

Again, reason I picked those 2 boss fights is because it'll give the most accurate numbers. For example: a ranger who just afk autofires on Terris Thule and doesn't switch to adds might top the TT parse, not because they're better than monks or rogues, but because let's say the monks/rogs switched to adds during the fights.

Furthermore, looking at overall raid DPS in potime isn't super useful information because of the amount of trash in p3 and p5. Just anecdotally using myself as an example- I'm leading the raid and during trash in p3/p5 I'm typically doing DKP, attendance logs, and adjusting raid groups. I lose out on hundreds of thousands of damage during p3/p5 for this reason.

The op was asking how rangers perform in pop, and IMO looking at CT/Bert are the best indicators because those 2 fights are the most straight forward. You don't have to switch targets, you just attack 1 thing in 1 position for an extended period of time. Everyone's on equal footing.

The other fights, and the raid as a whole introduces too many variables to give a good answer. I.E. let's say all the monks are just AFK during trash clears, but all the rangers are not. The rangers will have substantially more dmg output than the monks if you look at the overall time parse, even if monks beat rangers on parse during every actual boss fight.

I'd love to see your parses that show a ranger doing 800 dps in era without using trueshot. I've just provided you 1 month of parse data. You can keep arguing all you want but unless you're providing numbers then it's just empty words.

Wrong. True Shot is used multiple times on a single raid. Do you raid only 1 hour a night?

I'm not sure you're aware you have a bias against Rangers. Why would you single out Rangers in this instance, when the same idea applies to all DPS classes?

Agreed. But perhaps this person meant overall raid DPS across all raid encounters. Minus trash pulls.

No one disagrees. I find it interesting you always use Rangers as the punching bag here. For example, "Rangers will have higher damage output if they are try harding and the monks are slacking." This thought applies to all classes.

I've flamed WaitingForMoreEQ on this forum (on other account handles) multiple times. So don't think I'm just taking his side here. I do believe the truth is somewhere between your stance and his. However, he is closer to the truth than you are based on my experiences.

I'd estimate 95% of the posters on this forum have raided through PoP before, and a majority have likely done it multiple times. I thank you for posting your parses here, and I even welcome you to post more. Nevertheless, just because you posted a parse based on your own logs does not mean anyone who disagrees with you is spewing empty words.

Uh... When you're clearing all of potime in 2 hours or less... Yes trueshot is a once per raid disc. If you're able to trueshot more than once on a potime raid right now, at least on Agnarr, you're doing something wrong.

There's 2 guilds active on Agnarr that raid potime. The people who take parses from both guilds are saying that based on literal years of parsing this every single week, rangers are not the best DPS class. Literally nobody who has disagreed has posted any actual evidence to the contrary.

I'm not biased against rangers. I play a ranger. Ranger is my 3rd fav class to play behind SK and bard. But, they simply aren't as good dps as monks or rogues unless they're trueshot. It's literally not arguable. All things equal, no discs used, ranger will lose to an equal geared monk/rog almost every time barring some freak luck with crit shots.

How are you clearing time in 2 hours and having 22min cooldowns up ever other fight? Do you guys just magically skip to Phase 4?

Rangers get 2 mins of disc time ever 74 mins. Monks get 3 mins of disc time every 68 mins
How do your monks stack up against Rangers for the other 73 mins of 74 mins that they don't have the disc advantage. Let's be honest we both know it's not good for the monks.

Cherry picking individual boss fights is a terrible way to decide which class is the highest DPS.

On Khati Sha Shamans outparse Mage and Wizards. Clearly this means Shamans are a better DPS class then Mages and Wizards in SoL.

Fair enough. Just keep in mind who your audience is. Those of us on Aradune/Rizlona won't be clearing PoT that quickly. This claim is highly circumstantial. There is not a one size fit all answer for the question being discussed in this thread.

It's unlikely that anyone here aside those currently on Agnarr would have logs of PoT raids considering they occured years ago. All I have at my fingertips is a parse from another thread (will make another post with this data).

URL: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/megathread-top-dps-per-eq-expansion.253798/

Repost a DPS chart with a clearer picture of group composition, buffs, gear, etc... before you make such claims. Posting numbers archived from wild environments isn't conclusive of anything. In fact, if the Monks/Rogues are being supported whereas the Rangers are not (which seems highly likely in your case seeing as that you hold the belief Monks/Rogues are simply superior) this would skew the results immensely.

The type of parse you've provided to us to base your claims is on par with a CT/Bert parse where random players popped discs (though we don't know who), and Rangers received BST buffs with an epic Bard whereas the other melee classes were not provided with such luxuries.

Many parses I've seen have classes close enough in dps that any class receiving BST buffs + epic bard will edge out the other classes (of equal gear) who didn't receive said buff.