PoP DPS Parses - Phinny

Anyone have any raid or group parses from PoP era on Phinny that they can share? Curious to see how the classes stack up.

For raids - It isn't quite so easy to just post parses, so many variables- Npc. Raid composition. Fight length. DIscs/AA up. Group composition. Gear & AA levels. Number of classes in a raid. Attentiveness.

Our longish PoTime fights done with ~30 in the raid, with maybe 2 mnk, 1 wiz, 1 mag, 1 rog, 2 rng, some of whom may be boxes or boxing other toons, are going to be far different than another guild with a raid of 72 with much faster fights, etc. Espec since each raid may disc on different mobs in each phase.

It might be easier to give generals, because it's far too easy to cherry-pick parses, fights, etc and have an apples to oranges comparison with other situations.

In general, your top 10 will have - Wiz, Mag, Mnk, Rng, Rog, SK. Obviously if you have a raid with 20 wiz/mag/mnk/rng/rog combined, you probably won't have an SK in there, but if you have less you might. The rough ranking is probably - Mnk, Rng/>Rog, SK for melee fights. Generally speaking the monks should be 10-30% ahead of Rog in equal gear and equal discing. Monks burst is higher than Rog for example, but I believe Rog sustained is closer, so if the fight goes longer it will probably shrink that gap (ie from 30% to 10%). Rng seems to have more variable, but that's likely more due to discs & rng - they're roughly equal to a Rog or slightly worse in sustained dps, but because of the usefulness/better on-target dps of ranged dmg (ie out of range of fears, easier to target switch for adds, no worries of ae ramp, etc), they're usually superior in practice when it comes to total dmg. This is how they can tie/beat monks also. Ie in practice, Rangers can fall anywhere from in the mix with Rogues, to being ahead in with the top Monks, fight and disc depending.

SK's can show up, as they often have since Kunark, but their melee continues it's slide each expansion, and their unholy aura disc can't quite keep up, so their competitiveness has gradually been diminishing. Nevertheless, you'll see them on parses sometimes if their disc is up & it's a smaller raid size with a good parse mob. I will say that it seems like our guild is not the norm when it comes to SKs making parses (from Kunark to now even), this is likely due to how insanely competitive our players are in optimizing, high playtimes (=great gear), and them purposefully optimizing for this (some have/had specific gear sets for dps).

Mag/WIz - Mostly agro limited, and they're harder to parse because of how spread out fights are, but they're still top 10 competitive, and have the added benefit of being ranged dmg and all the advantages that brings. When they're in range, they're not usually top dps (but can be), but usually mixed in towards the top.

I will add, it seems easier for a mediocre geared/AA'd/attention/boxed Monk and Ranger to make parses than it is for other classes (Mag/Wiz/Rog/SK). The other 4 classes are IMO more gear & play dependent to be competitive.

Edit - Some new spells/songs & new dmg augs/etc from LDoN could change this up a tad.

Excellent post dude. thx

SK master race

Yeah that was fantastic, great detail and exactly what I was looking for. As I haven't really been able to play on the recent TLP's, I don't have a good sense for what class balance is like these days, so this was super helpful. Thanks wycca/Second.

Didn't notice any mention of necros, do they completely fall off the dps meters in PoP?

i'm also curious about BST. i'm not playing one, however i never even see mention of their damage capabilities in relation to other classes.

Player skill/gear being equal. They aren't putting out dps competitive with the usual suspects.

Necros are tricky to parse because they're often standing too far away to get dots counted in the parse. Same problem as rangers, except most people are aware of ranger dps being very high even if they don't show up on parses.

Necro dps is also better on longer fights where their dots can do work, but tends to be lower on very short fights with full raid crews. It really comes down to how your guild is running raids and the numbers you're using for each boss.

As already mentioned by others, caster dps can vary a lot due to playstyle and gear. For example, as a wizard I basically have to have to be min/maxing nuke cycles and using clicky concussion pants to compete with a disc monk/ranger at their best.

Plus if I'm not nuking at 100-99% using small nukes + concussion to get a small amount of dps going while aggro gets established then I'm going to fall behind the rangers who have been doing huge dps right from the start.

Add in the RNG from nuke crits and it adds another level to where my dps ends up on the parse. I could have a boss fight where I crit a ton and end up way ahead as 1st on damage, but another fight I may get unlucky and get no crits and fall down to 5-10th. Plus there's the question of bards and whether your casters have bard song focus or not.

Basically caster dps has a ton of factors that can really change who ends up topping the parse, whereas melee seems to be more consistent from what I've seen (although I do see a lot of melee complaining when they don't get ferocity).

At this stage they're still a utility class that does some dps. I believe that changes in later expansions, but right now they fall behind all the dps classes.

Eg. If a monk is doing 500 dps, the bstlord might be doing maybe 350 dps (random numbers but you get the idea). So not bad, but not really up to the standard of a pure dps class in PoP.

Aggro is a problem for BST right now. They can do good dps when able to go all out and live through the fight.

SK DPS is still pretty darn good, but it will be totally dependent if they have unholy up and whether a mob can be hit by mental corruption strike. If the SK can leach mana through weapon procs, a necro mind wracking and a bard both in group - SKs can even give the wizards and monks a good run for their money. Obviously that is with ideal ADPS and a SK who gears for DPS.

Personally I am one of those people that keep TANK and DPS sets of gear on me for whatever the situation calls for. Full bore DPS with SKs really gets a giant boost from extended enhancement AA, DMG and Mana Preservation. Extended Buffs affect Unholy - we are talking 7+ minutes of Unholy - its pretty amazing!

I'm not sure why people use d.p.s in place of damage, as d.p.s is actually a calculation and any class can technically deal damage. Additionally there are many different variables for calculating damage, but the 2 most important are distance!

Perhaps a few questions would be, (with an even playing field in terms of level, gear, AAs, and discs)

The melee class that has the highest total damage done per fight?
The range class that has the highest total damage done per fight?

The melee class that has the highest total damage done per raid?
The range class that has the highest total damage done per raid?

The melee class with the highest sustained d.p.s (damage per second) per fight?
The range class with the highest sustained d.p.s per fight?

The melee class with the highest sustained d.p.s per entire raid?
The range class with the highest sustained d.p.s per entire raid?

....wut?

Do pray tell, how does distance affect your damage calculation?

Someone who is standing outside the range to register on in your log file (and therefore your parse) is still doing damage. Or for that matter, a dot class that can be standing right next to you and still not have their dots show up in your log. Their damage does not change because of their proximity to you or your ability to see their damage.

Total damage per fight is useful, but the DPS tells you the same basic thing, who did the best. The length of the fight is the same for all the players, so dividing a player's total damage by the length of the fight still shows who did the most. It also gives you something to use as a common comparison. Different fights will have different duration's so the total damage isn't apples to apples, where as DPS is.

Depends what you mean by DPS. In gamparse, DPS is calculated by the amount of time the individual character is involved in the fight. So, if a wizard nukes only once, his fight time is 1 second and his dps will be whatever the nuke lands for. So someone who nukes once for 3000 would show as 3000 dps and 3000 total damage, even if the fight lasts five minutes.

Scaled DPS (sdps) shows what you describe -- dps scaled to the length of the entire fight, regardless of how long the individual participated.

This post is dumb. Of course duration matters. Comparing DPS between different fights isn't apples to apples either.

Lets say that you move out of range of firing your bow, damage over time, or direct damage spell. That would play a significant part in your sustain damage, because you wouldn't be actually dealing full damage - decreasing your sustained.

The duration of the fight goes from the moment it's attacked, to the moment it dies. If you choose to drop one nuke using 1 second, then the remaining seconds of the fight you did zero and your DPS reflects that. DPS is an average, it's measured for all players over the same time period, not the time period that best suits them.

I don't know about you, but I've never been in a guild where this is a significant problem. People are generally smart enough to know where to stand to be in range of the mobs, and if things move, to adjust quite quickly. At least the ones that aren't afk autofiring.