For those of you who have both a pally and sk, with the recent nerfs to Lich Sting, Leechcurse, MC, etc., are pallies more survivable in undead swarming now vs. SKs in their regular swarming? Can pallies now tank better? I've always been somewhat bored of paladins, I played one to the high 80s then shelfed. They don't excite me with their current lack of awesomeness. Maybe if slay undead did triple it's current damage .... but alas; or maybe if I learned the class better. Anyway, with their self heals procing etc. I wondered if paladins might make better tanks than SKs now? Feel free to slam me with the "no way d00d, SKs still > paladins! Lern yer stuff n00b!"
no way d00d, SKs still > paladins! Lern yer stuff n00b! No seriously, the nerf will definitely have an impact but I doubt SKs won't be able to recover from such a nerf. The uproar of the people is always louder than how hard the nerf hit.
Paladins have been better group tanks then SK's for awhile for certain types of.content. That which th Sk excels at.they still do fine, that which Paladins do better they still do better. I play on Test and for average.group stuff the nerf is meaningless. Both knights are pretty equal just dofferent.playstyles.
Paladin swarming is irrelevant and has been for some time. There are certain levels where it can still be accomplished due to the low hp of mobs vs max slay at that level but the autogrant will bypass the usefulness of lingering in those level ranges just to build up enough aa to be useful to a group. With that said worrying about a paladins capacity to swarm is a fools errand. It is as obsolete as an sk until newer abilities manifest to bridge gaps of deficiencies which will at some point inevitably happen for both classes. Shining armor is an example. Paladin swarming solo had died off until sa was added and then it made a resurgence for a few levels and then lack of concentrated undead content obsoletes it again. With regards to tanking: paladins have been the better raid tank because of ability synergy. So nothing will change until sk see more raid utility, which the nerf to swarms might actually help. The group game will still be dominated by sk. The nerf won't hurt them that bad as they will still be able to go god mode vs named with mantle, visage, epic combo. Their capacity to tank 8 mobs at a time will be brought down to more realistic numbers which isn't a bad thing. It will require sk to use multiple abilities to achieve similar success. You may see a rise in paladin numbers because of the auto grant. As it will push them into the power curve and sweet spot sooner where the class can be enjoyed more. Ther are level ranges and aa counts that usually deter the average player from continuing to play a paladin past a certain point. The autogrant will be a boon in that regard.
Not trying to derail, but where is there good contemporary info on paladins as far as spam key, discs and so forth? SK, to their advantage, has a fairly strong community where as Pally... I dunno. Maybe I am not searching deep enough.
What do you need to know? 95 to 99% of the knowledge is already right there on Samanna, or can be quickly surmised by looking at Lucy. A quick cross reference to EGN (Since SK's are knights too) can fill in any gaps you might miss. *** also if you search these class forums, and skim read, Typically anytime Shiftie or Abazzagorath say something in the Tank forum regarding Paladins its worth reading. ***Also use the serverwide chat for paladins However ill try and answer your question in a less lame way. Spam key For HOTT /cast 1 - Ostrasize /cast 2 - Valiant Deflection *** flip order if you need more self heals, since the reflect heal on VD is larger, I usually keep Ostra on top, because i am more concerned with getting crap dead Spam key for Stuns /cast 3 - Stun on Timer 4 /cast 4 - Stun on Timer 5 /cast 5 - Stun on timer 6 Attack on hotkey i use /attack on /alt activate #### whatever the heck disruptive persecution is ^ That ones just plain lazy but whatever Derp self heal omfg i am gunna die /cast 7 - Sorrow /cast 8 - Contrition Derp I need to burst /pause 2, /target Sunmistress (thats my paladin's name) /pause 2, /cast 11 (burst of splendor) /cast 10 (Dazzling Light) ^ I have Toggle last target and my self keybound I use that to retarget the mob Another convenient one for pulling /alt activate #### (Divine Stun) /alt activate #### (shackles of tunare) Armor of blah blah blah Blah blah blah Mantle Holy Guardian Deflection ^ Those are your defensives, learn what situations to use them, when you need 20% mitigation and when you need 36% that stacks with Vie and when you need 36% that doesn't stack with Vie. Its Then theres burny stuff < its all instant cast so if needed you can make a macro to pop it all off at once... I avoid doing that because its just plain lazy and i prefer to have full control over whats burning, so i can space them out depending on whats in the group to try and push my personal Deepz alittle moar 1st spire/3rd spire (2nd spire is F****ing useless) Armor of the Inquisi/Group armor of the inquisi 2.0 *** use these to make your self healing moar busty A jillion clickies macro them if needed I keep magmatic defender, VOA chest, COA chest, TSS group chest, and bunch of other stuff on 1 bar How/when/why to use your defensives/self healing stuff is up to you to learn/figure out, good luck.
If you need something more in depth Send me a PM, I gave you the highly glossed over version. Although I am by no means an expert at the Paladin class.
One thing to mention macros are terrible for a paladin main. If you feel inclined multibind otherwise cast separately. The only things that should be macroed are dps discs. Defensive things usually fall into player discretion. But an offensive burn is the same most every time. Setting up socials is bad juju because you can't stop an actuve macro. Things worth macroing Aa da A self burst: /tar shiftie /cast x /cast x /cast x An assist macro when self saves are down: /assist /cast x /cast x /pause x (depends on individual latency) /xt target 1 That will assist the mob you are fighting and assist it to yourself and then retarder for Seamless healing. Paladins are reactionary they don't get a lot out of macros, if you are not commuted to make environmentally or situationally aware decisions and would rather a click and play class then the pal is not for you. If you don't mind putting forth the effort the class will be rather rewarding. We don't have an I win button but if played right per scenario you get the I win end result. Best advice be proactive and reactive. Not a click and forget class for max efficiency. Which is the downside there is a huge diff between what I describe and someone that is clueless. So much so that the low end really struggles and the high end makes people jealous.
You can stop an active macro by right clicking it. How do you get the self burst keybind to work? If i don't put a /pause 2, in the target line, i always end up casting burst on the mob =( Maybe its a latency thing.
I do multi-bind over macro use (although my rogue's and zerk's burns are macroed) and get mashed like 4-5 times to get them to completely fire ) and tend to try to have a standard layout for all characters...since multi-bind kinda forces that. It was a matter of what to best plug into the menu bars. I figured that the spammy stuff like taunt/bash/stuns/withstand would be fine for multibind.
Macro and multibind are two diff things try to use the terminology correctly or the advice you get is going to vary. Bash taunt etc are ok to macro Spell casting is best done with multibind. While you can stop a macro it is highly inefficient. Latency is going to vary and yes a pause of 1 or 2 will make that self burst work. I had various macros that only really included a line of text or two. For instance, /assist /pause x /alt activate bda (bestow divine aura you'd have to look up the right code) /Tt you are now da click off at your own risk That was used to save a cleric or dps, merc etc if someone overaggroed and then bonus points if they were in group and then I could use aurora to bypass da and heal them back to full. I made a self da hot button that activated potion belt slot for a heal over time potion and then cast da on myself Instant cast abilities on hot buttons are as a rule the only things you want multi spell casts are cumbersome as a paladin because you are always choosing or should be, what things to click or cast.
yeh bash/taunt/withstand multibind pretty well.I have a taunt/stun multibind as well for when someone snags aggro off me.
With all due respect to Shiftee: Paladin swarming was (and still is at some lower levels and may be again for higher level characters) sometimes awesome and sometimes negligible. The AA grants don't eliminate it's value to lower level characters - faction through killing vast numbers of mobs, AA's that are not granted (TS for example. Remember teh Shawl), leveling - there are undead to be found in practically every level tier. Swarming, as in PLing lower level characters with your toon and a merc, is pretty dead. Mass killing for faction, tradeskill drops, some AA's and at some levels is not. And I'm pretty sure Paladins have a very significant edge in that area. Unlike burst mitigation alone, combat self healing scales down. If one thinks Paladin scaling down went away yer misinformed. Every player is not level 90 post AA grant. Shiftee is absolutely right post 90 reasons to swarm have declined (except for teh Shawl). OP does stand corrected focusing on swarming is an error (as Shiftee points out). It's all about fast kill groups now. Lessee: Cleric Bard Tank 3 high sustain melee DPSers with occasional very high damage procs. Warrior, SK, Paladin choose one. IMO we can rule out the mana sponge/Universal Reipient with short range slow refresh aggro. That leaves SK and Paladin. Downtime will be the Cleric or the tank running out of mana or the DPSers running out of endurance. I think (time will tell) the changes to the SK class leaves Paladins with the most sustainable combat self-healing/synergy with a Cleric and not as good but quite adequate fast low cost aggro. Paladin. (SK's were right - they did slip to #2 in group content and of course Warriors were never in the running.)
I would like to see some evidence backing up this proposed "slip back" for SKs as group tanks. From my experience, most current group content is a max of 2-3 mobs at a time and that is probably not going to use up all the charges of the "nerfed" abilities - so what is the problem that has made them worse as group tanks? If they're not using all the charges before the timer runs out, there is no reduction in the effectiveness of the ability.
I don't know how you think they slipped to #2 they didn't remove the abilities and for the most part they will see no difference unless engaged in a fight against 6 or more (as per the threads on egn where they said 8)
If your only pulling 2 or 3 your not pushing very hard. When my fellowship does HA's we usually pull in clumps north of 5. When the bard is actually on her game twice that many. However on Test i've managed to make lifeleech effects last through pulling lile that.
"Bard is actually on her game" implies that you're mezzing extras and still not tanking more than 2-3 at any one time - or are you guys AOEing 5+ at a time then? If you are AOEing 5+ at a time, what does the bard being on her game have to do with it?
Pulling 10, tanking 4 or 5 or maybe all 10 if i AOE lifetap on accident. With how many defensives/clickies SK's/Paladins can stack its not really that out of the question to tank through a good handful, constantly. Especially given the scenario I presented. The trash mobs in HA's are about on par with T4 VOA/T1 ROF, according to my tank parse. Now if your talking some of the harder trash mobs in the HA's that aren't completely gimped, sure 2 or 3 is probably the max if you don't have a healer. If you have a consistent real healer or a boxed healer, though i could see a handful of them as well. Also in the above scenario the bard pulls, if shes not 100% into pulling, once she goes past pulling 5 or 6 at a time she does dumb crap and dies. < Or she goes and pulls too early and we still have 3 left in camp with another big handful en route.
Are we talking a raid geared SK here? Mine is mostly CoTF group geared and hits 110k hp/9200AC fully buffed and using a box cleric for heals, but if I try to tank 5 or more HA trash without big timers up I'll take a spike somewhere and go down. Of course I usually just keep things mezzed and only tank 1 at a time since my DPS is wizard powered and we burn single targets down in 10-15s each. I guess if you really are consistently tanking 5+ mobs all the time, then yeah this could be a nerf for you. Maybe get the bard to press the AOE mez button more often.
