I have been around a long time, played a paladin well past a decade. I parse my damage regular to keep fresh on highest possible dps combo's. I recently have been told by a newer guild paladin, another paladin in a brother guild is doing 400k dps by casting only. I am calling BS on this one, yet am curious. Disruptive persecution hits for 32k and crits for 132-136k. Our next highest nuke crits for 32kish. Each of these is locked out with a small recast. I have not tried parsing spell damage only. I can imagine 50k dps if lucky with crits with spells only. If I am wrong let me know. Willing to learn something here.
Paladin alliance doesn't trigger with Disruptive Persecution. Crush of E`Ci can crit higher then 32k with high +spell amounts. Lucky criticals can help too. Even with full ADPS for magic nukes, plus getting credit for alliance fulmination once per minute (19k dps), I doubt the best nuke lineup can cover the remaining 380k dps claimed. My experience has been that spell damage can be about 50% of paladin total DPS if you're trying. Can the Ascending Sun Great Sword do 200k dps auto attacking?
Paladin spell dps when it was revamped (hot era) accounted for 50% of our dps and made it worthwhile to spam spells. It was a 50/50 split on a good run and 60/40 favoring melee without augments to the spells. After various nerfs and the x%boost per expansion to spells they just haven’t kept pace. We need for the upcoming expansion to see a large increase to thunder of karana. For the brief time it is up we should be able to trade off 100% crit rate with increased base damage for the duration of inquisitor. Or we could see an upgrade to hand of tuners allowing for a trade off of two cast heals to two cast dd. I envision twincast dd for 15 charges at 2x the mana. In addition to that based on inflated mob hp values. Inquisitors judgement should have 2x the damage value. Disruptive persecution should have its base doubled as well, with a mana increase. Mob hp have out paced our ability to move their bp bars. Spell damage is easily controlled. With that being said I’m more concerned with resists and interrupts needing looked at I’m going to parse a long log file to check. My interrupts seem astronomically high.
I bet against live mobs that spell damage is closer to 60% of more of our damage. I can do 400k on a burn against something less than a minute, like the stratos raid boss, for a live mob. I also see other paladins doing 200k on the same raid. We have all the same weapons and aa, so other than glyph usage or intensity usage, the difference is spell casting.
I think I can speak to this. The message appears to have lost substance in transmission. 400k dps is his total, not "casting only". Alliance is not part of it, because he paladins alone virtually all the time. The key components are meleeing (with a 2h as aggressively as is survivable), a full time casting nuke weave of Remb Cons Bril Crush Censure Admo to go with Threads belt, and procs from NET & Dragonmagic on top of paladin and bard things. The biggest deal is a change of mindset to embrace full time casting whether tanking or damaging, but there's also a change of mindset that doesn't write off that second "or damaging" part. Paladin damage matters, because it's not different than rogue damage or any other kind of damage. It all kills mobs, so a paladin player gaining 100k dps is every bit as valuable as a magician player gaining 100k dps. That's not an exaggerated figure requiring alignment of stars and wild talent, either. Besides casting spells (with Threads belt & Dragonmagic pot), "using" Holyforge, Pureforge (those lined up with Auspices at least, if one can't steal a Ruchu), and Blunted Blade - instead of "not using" them, is a heck of a move.
Except you can replace that Paladin pretending to be a DPS class with a real DPS class and have a night and day difference. Yes damage matters but its generally healing thats desired from the Paladin in a tank group or any other group for that matter. Any DPS a Paladin does is great, but that should be over shadowed by our ability to heal allowing the other classes to do their job longer.
Before Pureforge VR and 2hander stance got nerfed you could hit 700k or 800k on sub 90s fights if you were lucky but only 30 to 50k of that was spell dps and that required alot of melee support. I cant see spell dps being 400k in current EQ so sounds like BS, hell melee probably hasnt even got to where it was in late TBM early EOK again (well maybe but prob not) Though your quoted max crits for spells seem off just eyeballing them, they arent that off.
On that mob and event I'm chain stunning jopals and doing zero damage to the boss for the win. ps: If you mean the second to last boss, then yes that's a time a paladin could burn while suffering the mana drain AE.
A good paladin is casting full time just like any other well played class, mashing buttons to good effect. Having the option to load a well known nuke spell set, and keep it on cool down, simply means that lone paladin in that raid isn't needed and can be replaced by a real dps class or an empty spot. That raid force is over powering the event. The raid has enough priest healers to win regardless. Paladin dps is akin to a cleric's. Healing is the most vital ADPS in the game.
Dead mobs have the lowest heal requirements, some guilds dont roll with a bench to pull a DPS from to rep a Paladin, so in a case like that on certain events/phases if the heal reqs allow, everyone that can going Ham is a positive. I dont think Brohg was trying to equate A paladin DPSing with an actual dps class, but if the mechanica allow any extra is extra and extra is more better.
Every little bit counts if a guild is hurting for numbers or the situation allows it. However teaching and encouraging people to use bad habits does nothing but try and put a band-aid on the situation. Sure, if the situation allows if go ham, have fun.
Absolutely, whether you are healing, tanking, dpsing, kiting or ccing you should be going for 100% optimal play. So we agree there. Regrettably there isnt as much active feedback for functions other than dps, heal parses dont really tell the story about how you just saved a cleric with an immaculately timed burst right as they purple clubbed. So alot of people focus on the things that do have a high portion of visibility.
The only thing a paladin ought and ought not do is know the difference of when. When should I do x as it pertains to what the class is capable of. Seamlessly transitioning between the class functions is the sign of a great paladin. Knowing how to dps is just as important as every other aspect of the class. Teaching someone how to dps isn’t forming a bad habit. It’s helping a raid force win. You carry a sword, learn how to swing it.
Your guild must be far different than mine. We burn that boss in 40-60 seconds, depending on lag. No one gives a hoot about the minor mana drain at that point. And we get 1 jopal or maybe 2? Why would I stand around chain stunning (extremely lazy)? The only thing of interest is to make sure the adds don't eat dps or healers. They aren't killing a tank. So what do I do? Like I do for any burn mob with adds. When adds pop, I pop hallowed and/or beacon, get some aggro, then never stop dpsing. Its enough aggro to ensure it goes to me instead of a dps or healer. The SKs are going to ae aggro them all anyway, but that just assures if they are sleeping, it doesn't cause problems. There are like 2 burn raids in this expansion. Stratos and GMM1. I unmem stuns for crushes as soon as we're past the first phase of adds. The jopals live for at most 2 seconds after then. Heck, sometimes I barely get more than 1 melee round in before they are dead. The heal requirements for this expansion are ridiculously low. If I'm in one of our MT groups on an actual boss, sure, I'll heal, while also dpsing the boss the whole time, but our heals are irrelevant no matter how much healing we do, because the tanks never die unless something dumb happens. We've one tanked the entire expansion from start to finish. Heck, our first mearatas win was 1 tanked by Foob. EoK? Sure, I'd heal like crazy, even hit #1 above warrior self healing or the clerics a time or two. But TBL? What benefit is there to just spam healing pointlessly while the MT stays at 100%? Paladins are terrible dps. We're terrible tanks (because of aggro right now). We're ok healers. These are raid roles. Our strength is our flexibility (RoI has 5 paladins right now, what does that tell you?). Cleric or druid doesn't log on? We actually can fill that role. An SK or warrior can't. But if our healing isn't needed, and you have 2-3 SKs chain AE aggroing which outpaces or nearly outpaces out single target aggro by ourselves (especially with the resist rate on refute this expansion), you darn well better be DPSing as hard as you can. When I show up 29th on the dps parse, as a paladin, I know people are slacking, but I also know I am contributing just fine. Sure, on a 16 million dps parse, I may be at that spot at 350-400k dps, while a zerker is at 1.5m-2m dps, but doesn't change the fact its better than being 40th and doing 150kdps while you tanking and healing meant exactly the same to the raid success. Every year my play changes, to match what I think helps my guild the most. Some years I'm doing mostly healing. Some years I'm doing mostly tanking. Some years I'm doing a lot of seemingly nothing as I'm running around scoping out things and preventing fires. But I'm ALWAYS dpsing as hard as the event allows. To do otherwise is letting down my team mates.
I delved deeper into this 400k dps. He is in a group with a bard and enchanter with the twincast aura up. Perfect group set up for dps. He also uses dragon magic potions, glyphs, infusion and Intensity. Awesome to pad dps like that imo, but a dps class would benefit more in a group set up like that. I did parse chain casting also. It did add 20-30k dps, without the use of all the extras. Without the perfect group set up
Yes far different. My guild spends 15 minutes recovering from the first phases, waiting on burns, and hiding from the mana drain, while melee slow dps that boss down. On the file boss we get up to 6 jopals. I'm usually holding down 2 or 3 of them myself. We still win, just very differently. Thanks for the elaborations on your raid force, ours is not nearly that strong in every facet. We make do and have fun.
I did a little testing on raids last night. Best full encounter dps I was able to pull (more or less BiS in every slot minus evolving items) was 142k in 261s vs rust bottom. Group was war x2, cleric x2, SK, Paladin. Rotation was Crush, Remem, Cons, Brill, Censure, Admon, Laud on a 7 slot spam key to keep casting at a maximum (spammed 116 spells in 261s w/ disruptive on cool down). I think the real “key” here for the 400k is group composition and event duration. I don’t know what a bard would have added, but I’m curious how much ADPS people have for these 400k burns and how long they’re pulling it off for.
