On the Social Organization of Frogloks

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Jevax, Mar 27, 2024.

  1. Jevax Apprentice

    What follows is a lore discussion of elements of froglok culture that I personally find interesting. The frogloks, like some other cultures present in Norrath, have a very socially-stratified system, denoted by their use of words like ‘Gaz’ or ‘Krup’ as a type of group title. This even bleeds into elements that players, in the role of Guktans, have access to - their newbie armors, their trainers, their leaders all use these elements of froglok culture to establish who a player is among them. So, for those of you patient enough to peruse my research, I hope this offers some illumination on words and behaviors you encounter every time you set foot into Guk or Sebilis.

    Froglok Cities and Communities
    Even beyond the physiological changes that came from Mithaniel Marr’s blessing of the Guktans, the race of frogloks is not socially homogeneous. Indeed, the different settlements of the frogloks are spread out over two continents: southeastern Antonica and eastern Kunark. In both locales, the frogloks prefer to inhabit swamps and jungles, but beyond such superficial similarities their societies display a wide array of differences. The Antonican frogloks, both of Guk and Gukta, are devoted to the Lord of Valor and, while we do not have much information on the religious practices of the frogloks of Krup (the Kunarkian city in the Swamp of No Hope) we do know that the frogloks of Sebilis worship Trakanon. Likewise, these Sebilisian frogloks work in congress with their ghoulish members, while the Antonican frogloks are in unending war with their cursed members. They do have shared caste system names, which is the next topic for discussion - if you are interested in the castes specific to each of the four notable civilizations, they are listed in Appendix A. Beyond that, frogloks of Guk and Gukta are willing to work with adventurers, while those of Sebilis will eternally be hostile - and, for some reason, the frogloks of Krup are not willing to treat much with adventurers either, even Guktans.

    Froglok castes
    One of the most interesting aspects of froglok culture is their caste system (Note: in other sources, these are listed as tribes or titles, but considering these sources are a bit apocryphal to this setting, this work will stick with ‘castes’ as a middle ground). They are classed by these castes, but their exact meaning seems to vary by specific culture. The Guk, Krup, and Sebilis frogloks seem to have a hierarchical structure, with Gaz, for example, denoting less-powerful frogloks. Gaz frogloks can be knights, shaman, squires, warriors and warders. Among the Guktans, however, these castes denote classes - a Gaz is a rogue among the Guktans, while a shaman would be of the Yun caste, etc. The different groups also have different castes specific to each - see Appendix A for the full list, with separations by culture, and Appendix B for the different classes associated with each caste.

    Further Guktan Differences
    The Guktan culture has a few other additions of interest. For one, they are led by elders of two castes: Lokta and Zokta (interesting that they are elders or ancients, when Guktans have not existed in their current form for very long - they must have been aged Guk frogloks when they were reshaped by Mithaniel). They also possess a specific merchant caste not found elsewhere, Zok. Finally, during their time in possession of Grobb, there were two guides that were of the Rukta caste. However, it seems neither of these frogloks made it out of the city during its counter-invasion by the trolls, and thus no living representatives of this caste remain, much like Zukta, described below.

    The Fifth Culture
    One problematic element arises in the consideration of Deepest Guk, a mysterious place. It is notable that many of the frogloks here are Guktan - despite deepness often being associated with age when we think of city structures. Instead, the conflicts raging here are newer, as the frogloks take the battle to the source of their curse - Innorruuk’s Cauldron of Souls. Inside these depths, we find representatives of the various Guktan castes, along with one not seen outside of this particular locale: Zukta. No specific class seems to be connected to it, leaving its meaning unclear. Still, this battlefield rages on as the frogloks try to stem the tide of undead and to presumably recover the lost souls of the cursed so they can go to their intended afterlife.

    The Meaning of -ta
    One suffix is crucial to our understanding of froglok culture. The suffix ‘-ta’ seems to note something as being new, or more powerful. Note Gukta, their new home, as opposed to Guk, their ancient fortress. Likewise Guktan frogloks are those blessed by Mithaniel, contrasted with the ones that remained in Guk. Next, within Deepest Guk, some of the most powerful representatives of various castes we can find also have their caste names appended with -ta: Darta, Jinta, Korta, Shinta, Yunta, and the aforementioned Zukta (It is curious that the various guild leaders in Gukta do not follow this trend, while deceased heroes in Deepest Guk do). Finally, even among the Guktans, their societal leaders are Lokta and Zokta (remember, ‘Zok’ signifies merchant, so these must be civil leaders). Interestingly, there are castes with ‘-ta’ within the Guk society: Tonta, Nokta, and Shinta. Presumably, this means that higher level adventurers of the various Guktan classes may consider themselves -ta members, even for a few castes not presented in game - Bokta, Gazta, Zolta.

    An Oddity
    There is one more group among the frogloks that doesn’t fit the caste system, because all members are already members of the Dar - the Guja. These are the elite commandos of the frogloks, specializing in amphibious assault. However, their only two known members were Sugal the Fist and Guja Master Therik, and now Sugal the Fist is the leading member of the Marr-worshiping Guktan monks, so the fate of the Guja is currently unknown.

    Accepting Hate
    In the most recent change to froglok culture, Guktan frogloks worshiping Innorruuk have been accepted into Gukta by their kin. This has led to the appearance of 3 additional castes into the list of Guktan castes: Bok, Gaz, and Zol (as well as hate-corrupted Kor clerics). According to the sources I have seen, this was due to a curse from Innoruuk, which was partly what led to the reclamation of Grobb by the trolls. Considering Innoruuk is the source of the undeath that plagues them, and it seems to condemn those afflicted to Innoruuk’s Cauldron of Souls as its ultimate effect, this means nothing promising for those living Guktans who were cursed and now worship the Prince of Hate…

    A New Peace
    One final distinction from the usual representation of the various castes are the new froglok monks. These Guktans do not have a listed caste name - indeed, many of them don’t even worship Mithaniel, though many do. It is possible one of the caste names may be assigned to them later, but for now, they are the only type of froglok adventurer without a caste name to call themselves by.

    Final Questions and Thoughts
    Pray forgive me if this section is just a collection of unanswered questions, but unasked questions are more likely to remain unanswered. First: what are the castes, technically? Can frogloks, aside from Guktans, move between them, beyond just being -ta promoted?
    In Kunark, why are there 2 distinct factions for Krup - the faction you can raise in Old Sebilis, but has no existing members, and Frogloks of Kunark, which no one can raise? Also, the Frogloks of Sebilis have an odd exception: there are ‘Guk’ and ‘Krup’ castes, named for their capital, but not a ‘Sebilis’ caste - is ‘Ilis’ the froglok name for Sebilis?
    For the Guktans - will the monks ever get a caste? And, since Lokta is a thing, we could assume so is Lok, but none can be found - the only reference to that name is the Lost Kingdom of Lok, a group of frogs in the Plane of Storms, which is… weird. What are the Zukta frogloks? Do any Rukta frogloks still exist - or, for that matter, Zuk or Ruk?

    In Conclusion
    Frogloks are one of the more interesting societies that we are exposed to within the world of Norrath. Noted for their stalwart resistance in the face of fear and unending enemies - trolls, the undead, and even adventurers - the frogloks have a vibrant culture that reflects their constant struggles. While the Guktans have lost their homes, and have difficulties in allying with the other forces of their race out in the wider world, they still persevere and serve among the greatest heroes facing the threats to Norrath. I hope some of you have found this interesting… and that it may even have given you a new appreciation for your own characters. My gratitude for reading this far.

    Appendix A: Castes by Culture
    Guk
    Bok, Dar, Gaz, Guk, Jin, Kor, Nok, Nokta, Shin, Shinta, Tal, Ton, Tonta, Tsu, Tuk, Urd, Vis, Wan, Yun, Zol
    Gukta
    Bok, Dar, Gaz, Jin, Kor, Lokta, Rukta, Shin, Yun, Zok, Zokta, Zol
    Deepest Guk
    Darta, Jinta, Korta, Shinta, Yunta, Zukta
    Krup
    Gaz, Krup, Nok, Shin, Tal, Ton, Tuk, Tsu, Urd, Vis, Wan, Yun
    Sebilis
    Bok, Dar, Ilis, Jin, Kor, Krup, Reet, Zol


    Apendix B: Classes by Caste ( ) - Playable; (( )) - Easily Surmisable
    Bok - knight, mystic, shaman, wizard, ghoul knight
    Dar - (warrior), knight, shaman, wizard, ghoul knight
    Darta - adventurer, berserker, knight, phantom, savior, soldier, warrior
    Gaz - (rogue), commander, knight, shaman, squire, warder, warrior
    Guk - knight, shaman, ghoul knight, ghoul wizard
    Ilis - acolyte, knight, shaman, wizard
    Jin - (wizard), explorer, master, shaman, sorcerer, wizard, ghoul wizard
    Jinta - archwizard, phantasm, savant
    Kor - (cleric), adherent, master, protector, seeker, shaman, trainer, ghoul wizard
    Korta - adventurer, archpriest, messenger, priest, researcher,
    Krup - berserker, enchanter, guard, knight, mage, observer, protector, shaman,wanderer, watcher, wizard, ghoul knight
    Lokta - ancient, elder
    Nok - shaman, ghoul wizard
    Nokta - shaman
    Reet - knight, shaman, wizard
    Rukta - ((guide))
    Shin - (paladin), guard, knight, lord, messenger, shaman, supplier, warrior, ghoul knight
    Shinta - captain, champion, explorer, hero, knight, protector, rescuer, warrior
    Tal - mystic, shaman, ghoul wizard
    Ton - knight, shaman, warrior
    Tonta - knight
    Tsu - shaman, ghoul wizard
    Tuk - knight, shaman, warder, warrior
    Urd - shaman, ghoul knight, ghoul wizard
    Vis - knight, lord, shaman, ghoul knight
    Wan - knight, lord, vassal, ghoul knight
    Yun - (shaman), apprentice healer, assistant, master healer, priest, protector, shaman, trainer, ghoul wizard
    Yunta - bonereader, seer, soothsayer, spiritmaster, witchdoctor
    Zok - ((merchant))
    Zokta - elder, noble
    Zol - (necromancer), knight, ghoul knight
    Zukta -
  2. Brickhaus Augur

    I don't know whether to applaud or seek help for you...
    Herf and Windance like this.
  3. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Applause from me.

    P.S. I didn't see a list of recipes.
    Annastasya and Herf like this.
  4. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    I can only /kneel before such an awesome post.
    Veteran_BetaTester and Herf like this.
  5. Iven the Lunatic

    The University of Krup will award you the title "Dr. frog. lok." for that fine doctorate. :)
    Nennius, Herf and Silvena like this.
  6. GnomeGnomeGnome Elder

    Excellent research, thank you for sharing.

    Side note: the biggest EQ disappointment for me was discovering that player frogloks would not look like real frogloks, they were just frogs. So they never really blended into the vast and complex social organization of the Frogloks. I wanted so much to walk into Guk and feel like one of the locals.
    Duder and Herf like this.
  7. Herf Augur

    Yeah, does Guk have a bank, like the Goblins do?
  8. Herf Augur

  9. Herf Augur

    Give us Froglok monks on Agnarr.
  10. Herf Augur

    Admit it, you just wanted to be able to get into the the Lower Guk strip clubs.
    GnomeGnomeGnome likes this.
  11. Flatchy Court Jester

    I admit I do not delve into the storylines like I probably should, but since I was not around at the start of EQ I have a couple of questions you might answer if you have the time.

    1. Were the trolls always kicked out of Grobb from the start or did it happen later?
    2. How did puny toads defeat the giant trolls?
    3. Lastly, I started my adventure as a refugee in Neriak with those snotty Dark Elves. Later on the Trolls reclaimed Grobb. Is my home now Grobb or Neriak ? I have long since reset my bindspots and Never look.

    Thank you for your History Lesson I found it interesting!
  12. Jevax Apprentice

    I'm glad people are enjoying my research!

    I wasn't around at the start - I started playing during the Velious era - but I am able to answer these questions, at the least.
    1. It happened much later; specifically during the Legacy of Ykesha expansion, when Guktans were added as a playable race. During that time, new trolls started in Neriak Foreign Quarter. They reclaimed their home during Dragons of Norrath, I believe.
    2. Primarily, the frogs managed to defeat the trolls due to the empowerment of Mithaniel Marr which is what led to their new shapes. However, the trolls had problems of their own during that time - they were fighting with the Broken Skull clan of trolls, the rivals to the players' Ykesha trolls. Also, it's worth noting, the trolls had lost their original home to the frogloks once before - Guk was once the Ykeshan capital. So, trolls losing to the frogloks is a bit of a trend...
    3. Your home - origin point - would be Neriak, I am pretty sure. But, racially, your home could be whichever you chose, and I believe at one point you had a chance to change your origin... not sure how that works now.

    Also, I should note on my research... Appendix B is 'far' from finished. I've been doing lower-level Deepest Guk runs to look for more details related to my studies, and, well... while most of my data comes from Alla's, lower-level LDoNs are just not covered much there. I'll supplement that data as I can, since I am also taking screenshots of the named I encounter.
    Nennius and Flatchy like this.
  13. Kyzvs Augur

    I went through the pita of recaptcha after several days of laziness just to say well done on this one OP!
    Nennius, Herf and Flatchy like this.
  14. GNOME_POWER Augur

    Globb attack event before expansion introduction. "The Legacy of Ykesha"

    This was when the server was in Japan. Since it is a late start, the time of introduction of the expansion is different than that of the US server.
    It is written in Japanese, so you may need Google Translate.
    I am not the author.

    http://red.ribbon.to/~zenleta/community/diary/fallofglobb.html
    Flatchy and Jevax like this.
  15. Iven the Lunatic

  16. Jevax Apprentice

    Wow... I hadn't seen the event dealing with Grobb's fall, though I was playing at that time. And, of course, the event that came with the fall of Gukta and its return to Troll hands... there are little legacies of that one still on Alla and in-game - I think the newspapers, or lore journal - but in general, much of it is lost to time.