new chanter nerfs

Discussion in 'Casters' started by fransisco, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Fian Augur

    I am often number one in dps in my raid, although it depends on the event. I don't want to give out any parses or strats, because frankly I don't want to see enchanters nerfed even more. Also, count me as one who is not happy with yet another nerf to enchanter's runes.
  2. fransisco Augur

    I suppose every class has an event or two they excel at vs others.
    But since no never has ever posted a parse, I refuse to believe they hurt even a little in fights over 30 seconds.
  3. Sancus Augur

    What you believe or refuse to believe doesn't really have any relevance to the actual state of balance or Enchanter DPS. No one's going to post a parse because it'd get them nerfed...
    Fohpo and EnchFWO like this.
  4. Fohpo Augur

    What class(es) do you main? Are you one of those staunch proponents that bards/chanters are strictly aDPS and can't actually do damage?
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    Figth club.
    Fohpo likes this.
  6. fransisco Augur

    Umm.. necros have done nothing but post for about two years about how they are less than worthless in the group game (because most cannot solo full expansions anymore). Yet they NEVER post data to back it up. Necros have easily been the most OP class in the history of the game. They just hide it so it flies under the radar. I'm not saying they need nerfing, just that they aren't the red headed step children they claim.
    Now they are starting to say enchanters need to be nerfed cause they have a higher base damage dot even though enchanters lack all the activated/passive AA to back it up that necros have.
    One of us is missunderstanding the other and I'm not sure which. The post of mine you quoted was poorly worded. I didn't ask for an enchanter to post parses, I wanted a necro to post his parses. Show that on long raid fights they are doing as crappy as they claim.

    I know no necromancer will ever post meaningful parses of either raids, or the group game because they are not actually doing poorly.
  7. Sancus Augur

    Well you kinda have to consider that the Necro aura, which is a massive chunk of their DPS in groups and significant in raids can't even be parsed.
    Fohpo likes this.
  8. fransisco Augur

    But it can. Brogh has demonstrated that.
  9. Sancus Augur

    Except it can't. There are various ways of approximating it. None of that changes that if a Necro posts a parse it isn't going to include the aura, and you're going to have no idea how much that did.
    menown likes this.
  10. menown Augur

    Sancus beat me to it. I relooked over that post and the methodology brogh used is flawed.

    He tried using data from a necro, whom only used the aura and no other spells, I presume. The difference in total damage is his approximation for his aura contribution. The flaw is that aura damage does not show up on any parser. This includes necro only parses. A necro could kite 20 NPCs around an aura until he kills them all, and 0 dps would be picked up by the parser.
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  11. fransisco Augur

    Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clearing it up.
    However, can a decent approximation be given (assuming mobs are stationary and being tanked)?
  12. Sancus Augur

    I think what Brohg did is run the same mission twice, presumably killing the same # of mobs and such, and compared the total damage recorded. Assuming both parses included exactly the same mobs and he didn't miss any other damage, that can be used to approximate the damage since that would be the only source of damage that wasn't parse-able. But that only applies to situations in which you have two parses that are otherwise 100% accurate for the entire group and include exactly the same number/type of mobs. I think that's unrealistic in the vast majority of scenarios.

    I played around with it on beta but I'd have to go back and check; I think at least the Necro gets a log line that can be used to approximate aura damage because its damage per hit is consistent. That said, with multiple necros, range issues, multiple mobs, etc (which is especially relevant on raids) it becomes pretty difficult to properly attribute damage.

    So yeah, if someone wanted to they could probably estimate the damage the aura added, at least in a controlled scenario. But it's still not going to show up on a parser, and I'm not sure why a Necro would want to do that.
  13. menown Augur

    Ah, that is what he did. That would give a more approximate approach, but really only duplicateable with instances that have a static number of similar NPCs. His post was more getting at the DPS of the aura in general and not methods for parsing it in any situation.

    I do know the aura can be resisted, so just counting the number of NPCs and multiplying the DPS is not accurate. Tonight when I log on, I'll check for log messages. If there are any, I bet I have them filtered out.
  14. fransisco Augur

    For a group necro (assuming they are the only one) if there is a log message stating a mob was affected by the aura, you should be able to:
    1. determine your average resist rate by looking spell history (Excluding bosses)
    2. use that as against the number of messages about mobs effected by the aura.

    It won't be perfect, but even if its 90% accurate, thats a huge step
  15. Sancus Augur

    Pretty sure you wouldn't get an actual resist message since you aren't casting the spell.
  16. fransisco Augur

    I meant by looking at around 100 spells with the same resist adjustment. And use that for your average resist rate.
  17. Sancus Augur

    And we get to the same issue. Why would any necro ever go through all these hoops for you? The amount of data required to approximate the "average" resist rate over a variety of mobs to the point that it was indicative of the approximate overall average resist rate for that resist adjust is a bit ridiculous.

    If a necro really, really, really wanted to approximate the damage of this for you, they probably could. But you're literally arguing that they aren't as bad as they're saying. So I'm not sure who is ever going to do this for you? I mean if you wanted to run all these tests and present the data in a complete and impartial way you could. Not sure what you're expecting from everyone else though...
  18. menown Augur

    The log file shows up as XX's body withers. It is filtered under NPC Spells.
    mmats likes this.
  19. seber Augur

    this not big nef like hit ranger or pet nef more like baby nef maybe ????
  20. Sindaiann Augur

    Stop bumping this gd thread lol

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