Necros, TLP and Twitching

Hey all. I was thinking about coming back and restarting on Phinny. I used to play a necro back in the day (started during Kunark). I loved the class and some of the unique things it was capable of. However, one thing that always bugged me was the lack of appreciation for dot dps by a good chunk of the rest of the population and the relegation to "twitch duty" in some raids. I understand for clerics on CH rotations and such that this was sometimes required back in the day, but I often got requests from wizards, mages and group healers who made no effort to manage their mana and then expected me to twitch them. A big chunk of the population seemed to think that this was the defining role for the class.

My question is, has the attitude changed? I came back and played for about a year not too long ago and because the subversion line had died long ago nobody ever asked or expected it. However, with the reversion to classic EQ, is this expected again? Are necros generally respected as a DPS class or are they once again regarded as mana batteries?

Twitching went out back in 2000. Most necros refused to do it and it was forgotten. 16 years later....no one is ever going to ask you to twitch them.

As to dot dps that will never change. Groups want fast dps and fast kills. Just the way it will always be.

In TL we regularly twitched clerics and shamans after buffing, prior to fighting. It reduces downtime and increases quality of life. Expect to twitch in raid scenarios, don't expect to be nothing more than a mana battery. You do much more than twitch people ever.

People are more aware now of how bad twitching is, but on past TLP servers, I still encountered players asking for it on groups and raids. In groups, there's really no need for it. In early era EQ, you can help out by using your heal spells so clerics won't have to spend extra mana on heals. And if a DPS class asks you for a twitch to nuke, they're being unreasonable. Your DPS is just as important as theirs. Why should you give up your DPS so they can ranger nuke? Plus, that mana you give them could be put towards snares or useful patch heals...

On raids, it's more touchy. I would say research the guild, make sure they don't have stupid policies like necros, you're a fulltime mana battery, and raise hell with the class leaders if twitch is being abused by a dpser or you're getting constant twitch requests from someone who just can't seem to manage their mana.

This is coming from a cleric, btw, who used to blow through his entire mana bar casting the wrong heals and who always died all the time, because I over healed right as the mobs were incoming. I didn't get it until the necro team bytched about me and I got a not so nice message from my raid leader.

It was a long, long time ago that DOT's were changed such that the same DOT can be stacked on the same mob by multiple players. It really doesn't make sense for necro's to twitch during fights now that they can all load all their dot's on the same mob together.

No, it doesn't mid fight now that DOTs stack.

Plus, necros have their hands full keeping up their DOTs and FDing off aggro. Having your necros try to twitch, fd, and dps at the same time during a fight tends to result in half twitching and half dpsing, neither done effectively, cause the necros are bouncing between job duties.

You would be surprised how dumb people are about the mechanics of this game. I still laugh about idiots who tell me months ago how my gear choice/stat choice is wrong but yet I do 50% more damage than them.

I have also tried to explain to idiots before that twitching as a necro is a waste of mana and the opportunity cost is too high. There have been fights I have parsed about 15% of the total damage of the entire raid and I get told my job is going to be twitching (and I am also a bad necro go figure). What they don't realize is that without my damage the mob will not die and spending my mana inefficiently is a waste of time.

It is easy to prove mathematically, but people who have their head up their will never listen.

If you don't want to twitch, then don't twitch. If its after a CR or after buffing it is fine, but during the fight no way in hell. If you come back just realize there are still idiots with 1999 mentality in 2015 and if you run into said idiots find a new guild because it doesn't matter what you prove to them they will not confront their cognitive dissonance.

Twitching should never be a general strategy but it has it's place; and it is great to speed along CRs, especially when clerics don't have their epics for example.

We have access to a lot more mana regeneration than we did in classic and most encounters just aren't very long. I don't think any raid focused guild will try to relegate you to twitch duty; but you're also doing yourself a huge disservice if you completely write off a tool in your arsenal. It can definitely be used at points (Fight prep, recovery, or maybe some weird tactic when trying encounters with very few people and thus very few clerics).

This. Anyone who says necro's are not good for twitching is wrong. During buffing/cr, it is critical to speed along the process. During fights if clerics are running OOM, it is also imperative. Sorry if you don't want to twitch, but as a necro, its going to happen. If thats not what you want? Stick to the group game.

Generally, it's best to have your necros dps during a fight. The more dps that gets applied to a mob, the faster the mob dies. The faster the mob dies, the less mana you'll need to spend on heals. Twitching prolongs fights.

If your clerics are running out of mana, try to figure out why and fix the problem, rather than have the necros babysit them. It could be they're using inefficient heals, standing within range of an AE, or the class leader just has poor heal strategy.

Many people, though, find it easier to have their necros twitch than come to a person and tell them they suck or re-assess their raid strategy. It took multiple complaints about me before my raid leader came to me and told me I was a horrible cleric, because he didn't want to be confrontational. His solution was to have the necros twitch through the complaints until finally he saw yeah, there really is a problem.

Guilds that have necros play mana batteries are bad guilds or never played with a good a necro. It does have a use as some people have suggested as in recovery or buffing. Twitching clerics during a fight was bad in 1999 and is even worse now if that is expected. My suggestion is any guild that expects you to feed mana to clerics during a fight is not worth your time as they are just not a very good guild.

Yeah, I don't think twitching should go on during a fight or be part of a strat. I was in some guilds that always resorted to twitching, whether it was needed or not. They had necros twitching during Kunark and Velious, and kept twitching all the way into the later expansions. They used twitches for Fennin in Plane of Fire, Ture and Warden Hanvar, Roley DeFarge, and were still doing twitches all the way into Solteris. It was part of the strat for Mayong and Sol Ro and the big guy, Commodus.

Thanks for the responses. I never had a problem helping to speed up the buff/CR phases, but it always bothered me when I started getting those "twitch plz" tells mid-fight from clerics (and sometimes other classes). It completely destroys a dot rotation to stop randomly and throw out tiny bits of mana. The worst part was it was always the same people, and I knew they weren't geared any worse than others who somehow managed to make it through the whole fight without twitches while still doing their job well.

If clerics are running OOM in fights then something else is wrong. In classic, necros can top DPS without pulling aggro on every fight but Naggy and Sky, If you are having clerics run out of mana, have a terrible dps switch to cleric instead.

As was mentioned, twitching used to be more sensible because the same DoT from different players didn't stack, so they had a lot less useful things to be doing. Nowadays, it might still have a place, but it shouldn't be commonplace.

You wont twitch much during combat, but you will twitch while preparing and cr'ing. Atleast while raiding.

There will some pretty rare situations where an healer may need twiching while an bossfight, but playing an cleric on TLP i just remember like 3 fights where this would have helped.

You have bad wizards then.

Or great necros

We had great wiz and great nec - wizzies win classic fights pretty much (sky not included - I guess draco may be different), my vote is on bad wizzies =P.

The only time to twitch is during buffing where you will have time to med back full while the buffers are medding to full as well.

Thats it never twitch during a fight.