My problem with melee dps being so dominant.

That was 20 years ago.

They did right by casters later on with ADPS things like GBW, IOG, FE, Spires, Chromatic haze, auras, etc. It would be nice to see some modest elements like these earlier on to give casters more of a fighting chance without the need more basic power tuning. Especially since melee get things like avatar, savagery, overhaste, etc that they can stack with their discs. But I dunno. I’m just musing here. /shrug

Yeah, our wizards are dominating on a lot of Luclin fights. The only short coming is aggro - it's pretty normal for all of our wizards to get a quick summon and death at around ~30%.

Even with a death, if they get rezzed, they generally are within the top 10 DPS. That's with, I'd say, pretty a few very geared monks and the rest being decent.

We also haven't had much luck with Ancient Concussion, maybe that'll tip it more in their favor.

With that said, our necros are sad but it's probably because we're not playing them right lol.

#1. If your guild isn't putting 2 necros with wizards for perma mind wrack, you are doing it wrong. If your guild is playing correctly and the wizards are getting de-aggro buffs from enchanters, you won't have aggro issues. Also, if any of your classes on your raid aren't having trouble keeping mana then you aren't pulling and moving fast enough.

What? You are the kind of necro I referred to above as having no idea how to play their class. Utility IS a game role that exists for most classes. Utility might not be a specific classes PRIMARY role but it is a role and almost all classes provide some sort of utility role in a group or a raid, and if they aren't doing that then they are just bad and lazy.
First, raiding isn't the only thing in the game so balancing will take in to account everything a class can do outside of raids as well. Necro's are arguably the best solo class in the game with the highest amount of quality of life spells in the game (stuff most other classes either have to find a clickie for or buy pots for the rest of their existence).

If you want to talk specifically about raids though, it would take me hours to type out all the different types of utility a necro has on a raid. I put 3 necro's in our luclin race raid comp specifically for the utility, had nothing to do with their dps.

If you think necro's are a pure dps class and that's their only job, you need to just switch to a wizard where that is at least more true, or switch to a melee, cause necro is obviously not for you.

I was a Necro for a long time, and I played it very well. I have always maintained that necros are the most over powered class in the game overall, and the only other class that comes close is a bard.

A well played necro is a top DPS in nearly every expansion. Consistently top 5 on most fights from classic through luclin thusfar with exceptions for resists or if there is like an AE silence that only casters have to dodge. Melees get to disc once an hour, necros get to be badass every fight

Right, and you seriously want that back?

Might vs Magic - in EQ that's been the long running debate, I have never seen a conclusive argument in favour of either & EQ "FOTM" has flexed over time with one class or another having its "Day in the Sun" it all boils down to choices the developers make & what design they have in mind for where the hierarchy of damage stacks up - which to my knowledge doesn't actually exist or if it does has never been publicly shared, likely for very good reason.

Wizards think they should be n1, Necros think they should be n1, Rogues think ....any & every class has players who can construct arguments that their class deserves that top slot.

I think if a minority of every class is unhappy about their dps that the devs are doing something right, any class that's truly universally happy with their dps is overpowered.
Top dog on the parse should be somewhat interchangeable but that's also heavily dependent on raid design. Nobody playing a dps class should be doing 2-3x the dps of a capable player of another dps class but Necromancer consolidation/DoT revamp is not yet complete, I am sure they will get a rebalance at some point or be stagnated some for a few expansions while the others catch up.

It's a different situation Live vs TLP too, what Live players have seen of class DPS over time looks a lot different to what TLP players will have seen, I played Live up to SoD & TLP from classic to ToV so I've seen some of "old" Live and at least have a good understanding of "current" Live.

Do Wizards need some love?, yeah
Casters in general? less so
Casters should be vastly more powerful than melee? Hang on, whoa there if you want that

aren't you also forced to live in a "itty-bitty living space"



get back in your lamp, Genie, when I want my 3 wishes I will let you out, until then you can dream of being Jafar all you like.

Think about if you were able to parse out how much dmg mind wrack alone adds in VT trash clears/boss fights. No class would even come close to how much dps a necro is not only putting out themselves, but providing to the raid via their utility.

I would recommend you connect with Bonestealer in Altered Minds

AM do content with non-zerg numbers, actively trying to be the best.
Hes probably one of the best if not THE best Necro on a server, he parses well and his use of utility in raids is perfect, I regularly get pumped by him.

Wouldnt listen to the zergies on how to play a class when they have players who AFK through trash to dps lord on bosses, but yknow.

Is it impossible for you to comment on any thread without dragging up whatever beef with other guilds you have?

I don't even play on Aradune & this petty children's-playground-level crap is OLD already.

Take a day off, stick to the topic without the sniping, just for a change.

I could be wrong, but I'm 99% sure Beimeith was being rhetorical in response to the ridiculous "why should casters top parses over melee" question. Without context, both questions are wildly ridiculous to ask, which is what it seemed like he was pointing out.

I'm also fairly positive he doesn't even play on TLP? Regardless, he's considered one of the most knowledgeable wizards in game.

Except that Atabishi did give context to his question, if you read his post you would know that.

I am well aware that Beimeith plays on live & not TLP - but what forum is this thread in?

Except everything he said is wrong so we may as well ignore stupidity when we have the chance.

I agree that Necros are very strong. In Velious/Luclin, necros should be able to top parses on many boss fights. Long fights and bosses with tons of HP is great for necros, if they're playing well. Necros also have a lot more to do on raids. This isn't really disputable imo.

In POP/LDON necros suck tho. Fights go by too quickly for the to have the desired impact. The utility is still there, but you can gear up so quickly there that the utility is less useful. I think something interesting for necros would be to give them dot crits earlier. If necros could crit dots starting in pop that would make them more competitive.

Elaborate.

TLDR: Play a melee on TLP then.

TL:

Casters simply do not benefit from adjusted DPS modifiers the way melee do; particular as they are introduced through expansions.

A good example is necro access to dot crits is fairly limited where melee can go bananas on equipment that improves their crit rates or the amount of attacks they get in a single round which universally benefit from maximized crit rates for any given expansion.

The other limiting factor is the way resists have been tinkered with. The idea of fully immune to a certain resist needs to get developed out of the game for the exact reasons you cite; you’re a heal sponge in those fights and really gives you little incentive to be around at all for a certain raid (or entire zone) when you’re just filling out an open raid slot.

There is also the very non-linear spell power curve for dps casters... when your entire spell kit does not upgrade in an expansion, certain spells that got you over certain resist humps become inefficient and or useless. The spell tier really needs a complete overhaul.

You can certainly dispute his arguments but you cannot dispute he gave context to his question, wrong or right he elaborated.

Play more than the first few expansions and every class will have its day in the sunshine.

If you are a perpetual reroller on every single TLP that is released, you are doing this to yourself.

He's not going to dispute them or he'll just look like an idiot which is why he didn't already in his reply. What's he going to say to dispute it? That necro's only have dps spells and nothing else? lol

The amount of text required would be too great. All I can say is that if you base classes using less than 33% of the released expansions, you're not going to be able to properly judge what classes have "tons" of utility or are considered the "top" dps class. Because I can tell you right now, literally nobody considers necros as a utility class or monks as the top dps class in this game and it's been like that for years. Placed in a similar group, a well played warrior would most likely out parse a monk in later expansions.

That's a cop-out & you know it.

Put up or shut up.

And as a polite reminder this is the TLP forum not the Veteran's lounge.