Multi guild membership or extension to another guild's banner/trophies for raid purposes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tygart, Apr 27, 2021.

  1. Tygart Lorekeeper

    I love my guild and promised to take care of it for the GL while he's busy with work, etc. I also have a lot of stuff in the GH I decorated it with, so I don't want to redo all that again. That said, I raid with other guilds. I would like to to be able to use the raid's sponsoring guild banner and trophies. The trophy from RoS the raid force earned is pretty powerful item and running back to events via banner cuts down on time. Any way to make this happen in the future or this a usual code issue.
    Yinla, Zynt, Kelset and 2 others like this.
  2. Sissruukk Rogue One

    That would be pretty nice if they could do that.
  3. Szilent Augur

    Pass the pet guild to one of your alts, join the raid force.
  4. Windance Augur

    We do multi guild pick up raids. Most nights there are banners because no one guild has 12+ in the dz.

    This request comes up a couple times a year.
  5. Szilent Augur

    A raid banner for the AE buff would be a friendly thing to introduce. As (presumably) an item clicker, it naturally wouldn't have the utility Guild banners do of being movable once paid for. It may also have to have higher plat cost to not raise the rabble. 20k plats to erect, 1k plats to set the portal, something like that.
    Duder likes this.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I've seen the topic of "Raid Banners" pop up a few times before especially with raiding alliances & open raids this would be a very helpful tool.

    I think to actually create such a thing there would need to be a new system made, rather that using the existing guild banner system itself because it would need to work a lot differently behind the scenes.

    For a Raid-Banner system you would need to have a Banner Portal in the Guild Lobby or another sensibly located place open to all players that checks which raid you are in & then allows you to teleport to the banner that has been placed by the Raid Leader or the assigned Raid-Banner player, similarly it could require that 15 raid members are at the location before the banner may be placed.

    There could be reasons why that's not been done before, for example checking which raid you are in and where the banner for your raid is among what may be many active raid teams might mean it requires an active and constantly updating database (at least once per tick) which could be too big a drain on server processing to justify it, or too much time creating an efficient piece of code that can verify if you are actually in a raid, which raid you are in & where to send any player who steps onto the portal so that they end up in the right location.

    If it could be done though it would be a handy tool, I just don't know if the cost of doing it is justified by how many players would use it when there is a reasonably easy workaround.

    This workaround option for raiding alliances would be creating a new guild for the alliance raid team to join, having one or more players from each guild have an "officer" alt in that alliance guild who on raid day invites all of their raiders into the alliance guild temporarily - any who are officers/guild leader ranked in their guild would instead have Alts that hold that officer/leader position in their actual guilds while their main is able to swap in & out of the alliance guild for raids freely.

    Another option could be the creation of an "Alliance" system that works in a similar way to the Fellowship system - take away the XP sharing of the fellowship system - remove the campfire - add an Alliance Banner and have the requirement for placing an alliance banner 15 the same as a guild banner and you now have something that checks the alliance list rather than a constantly changing live database - a far less processing heavy method.
    That could then open up the option for "Alliance Halls" rather than having a portal in the lobby maybe just have an alliance portal in the alliance hall which can only go to the alliance banner & if no banner is placed do nothing, the hall could potentially have an alliance bank and an alliance system might allow for fast raid inviting of all online alliance members.
    Not sure the devs would like that idea and cost to create versus how many player would use it is still a concern but maybe cheaper than the raid banner system.
    Ozon and Tygart like this.
  7. Soulbanshee Augur

    They have said they don't want fellowships being used like guilds, which this seems very close to other than the 15 requirement, but it could also be restricted to only placed in raid zones so it can't be abused as a general port. I also can't see them allowing 400+ people in an alliance as you can a guild, maybe a lower threshold like 80-100, and/or a system where an alliance can only be created/joined once a day and be active for 6 hours after it gets removed. Just trying to think of ways for the onus to be on players and not have it mostly be a direct copy of either fellowship or guild systems.
    Ozon and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Well the intent wasn't to have a "meta guild" or the inverse of the guild-within-a-guild scenario the devs stated that they don't want.
    Having a cap of say 100 raiders should be plenty to run 72 & 54 player raids and moving players in or out of the alliance should be easy to allow some flexibility.

    Requiring 15 members of the Alliance to be online & in the zone to plant a banner and having an "Alliance portal" only being attuned to the alliance banner would mean this system would have greater restrictions than guild portal/ banners have anyway so I don't think your concern about abuse is warranted there, restricting it to raid zones is not necessary especially if the Alliance banner follows the same rules as the Guild Banner which I would expect it to.

    I wouldn't want the create/join once a day thing, but maybe a cap of say 5 times a day, this would allow even alliance raiders the opportunity to split raid by way of 2 alliances being formed for the day for example if there was a national holiday going on that led to an over-abundance of active players wanting to raid within your alliance.

    I did elaborate on a "onus on the players" (and no dev work / coder required) scenario where they just agree to create a guild for the purpose of their raiding alliance that players move their mains into/out of - on a temporary basis to allow them to collectively have enough players under the same tag to make use of the banner system.
    I based that upon something I planned out and almost created myself when my guild Darkwind and Caer Cadarns guild formed an alliance on Phinigel, in the end what we did was myself and most of my officer team joined Caer Cadarns guild for raids when their numbers become to low to use their banner - after I had appointed one of my Alts as Guild Leader and alts of the officers in their mains place, sometimes we just put the few raid-alts we had into the other guild to bump up their numbers enough to enable their banner use.
  9. Windance Augur

    There is an easy way to make this work.

    Right now when you go to place a banner you need 12 guild members with in some range of the person who plants the banner.

    Modify the code so that is 12 guild members OR 12 raid members

    Then each of the alliance guilds can place their own banner and use their guild portals.

    Very small change for the coders. Huge win for the alliance raiders.
    Ozon, Coagagin, Vumad and 1 other person like this.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    It's not as easy as you think

    Where do you port from?
    What do you port to?

    Think about it a bit more.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Another alternative is on dz creation everyone in the dz gets a clicky to that dz adding someone to the dz gives them a clicky.

    Changing guild banners to work for every one in the raid zone not just the guild who planted it would be a welcome addition. Of course 1 benefit banner per dz

    If that makes sense
  12. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Logically speaking, the guild that plants the banner is the determining factor. It just should work for everyone in the raid. Add a RaidMember check in the guild portal code after it checks the GuildMember parameter. If either are true, AllowPortal function.
    Yinla likes this.
  13. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    You can already use another guilds portal to get to your own guilds banner, did this a few times during joint raids when both guild had banners set. Discovered this when I took a guild TL to the wrong guild hall.
    Vumad and I_Love_My_Bandwidth like this.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Didn't know that.

    Still, there's a database of your guild's players that the banner/portal call up

    A raid banner would not have a database to look at currently, and creating a temporary one for each & every raid is not something the game does right now.
    So a raid banner really wouldn't be using the same system at all.
  15. Windance Augur

    Think about it a bit more: You're over thinking it and making it more complex then it needs to be.

    Where do you port from?: Your guild hall. Just like you do now.
    What do you port to?: Your guild banner, Just like you do now.

    Lets say you are going to do a pickup raid. You need to have at least 12 of those people run to the zone like normal. Then each person that ran would be able to drop a banner for their guild. Then anyone who had a guild member run, would be able to use their guild banner.

    When you get ready to actually raid there might be 5+ banners down, one from each of the guilds.

    Don't over think the problem.
  16. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    The Guild Banner checks a database - the guild window is the client side view of that

    Raids don't go into a database they just sit in memory, so there's no database for the raid banner to check - so it would need a new system created that allows a raid banner to check the memory.
  17. Windance Augur

    Skuz, You're still over complicating the process.

    When you go to plant a banner the game checks:

    1 - Do you have permission to set a banner? - yes/no
    2 - Do you have 12 members of your guild close by? - yes/no
    3 - Is the spot you are going to place the banner ok? - yes/no

    If all those checks are ok the banner is planted. - Correct?

    What I proposed was changing #2 to :

    2A - Do you have 12 members of your close by? -- OR --
    2B - Are there 12 members of the raid you are in close by ? - yes/no

    That is not a complex change.
  18. Tygart Lorekeeper

    While I understand your point and considered doing just this, however it's not a pet guild. It's a guild with friends since 2004 and quite a few do need my help with things in game. I've been part of the raid force for almost 11 years regularly and this has only been an issue with the last few years with having to run back on close events. The only reason I even made a thread on this is there is already implements in game for accessing other guild halls as a guest and accepting teleports to their respected guild hall. While I don't expect access to guild trophies to be happening ever, I do not think it isn't out of reach to have a portal access to banner if we have guest access to their guildhall. There are quite a few guilds who regularly raid too, not just mine. Perhaps, DP games can develop some sort of market item or expanding the guest function. Furthermore, others have asked me about this request and I'm putting it out here on the DP forums. Additionally, I have used the feedback function on this idea in game.

    I do appreciate everyone's feedback and conversation.
  19. Kolani Augur

    And yeah, when I was raiding with Symphony of Arms and Canto both, I had my anchor in KL's guild hall and teleported to SoA/Canto banners from the KL hall.
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    If you can't grasp that the Guild Banner looks up a database held on the server which represents the guild membership & that the Raid window does not have that then I am done talking to you.