Contraforce Discipline: Utterly useless, still occupies disc window and still locks out Echo line. And oh yeah, a bad idea to begin with that no one wants. It was bad enough the original Counterforce Discipline got in game to begin with, the fact that it has now reared its ugly head once more in the form of an upgraded version is... I can't really use the words I want or I will be banned. If you keep doing this people will eventually just stop playing, you realize that right? You were given a ton of feedback in beta forums, you completely ignored all of it and pushed this live anyway. Crimson Fist: I doubt I will be using this after that once click I did to parse it, since we dont really have endurance issues and there is simply very little content where the content doesnt run out before endurance does. Very geared group monks might use it I guess.
Yea, Ain't it great! 2 more completely useless discs again. Makes me wonder why they even have Beta Forums? Of the 10+ discs suggested, they picked none and gave us 2 total crap discs yet AGAIN. Of the like 50 + suggested AA's that were given, we got 1. (Fists of Steel) Good to know that all that time that monks put into making lists for the Dev's went to good use! They wasted our time, they wasted their time, and just made a ton of people pissed off. Excellent work! Might as well re-roll a rouge since they got the biggest DPS increase in the history of EQ. Because you know, rouges weren't already topping the parses or anything...They needed a 20% + boost across the board! Right ?!?. Brilliant!
The continuing saga of borking monks over time and again continues, i dont even know why they ask our input or suggestions, obscene that they didnt even pick ONE that was even remotely discussed.
Even if they removed Rest so you do have endurance issues, then this wouldn't fix anything by the looks of it. If I did the maths correctly it's somewhere around 135 endurance/tick. It's a sizeable boost, but does having that much regen then allow you do not more dps to offset the dps loss of the disc and then some more too (to make the whole exercise worthwhile)? Seems touch and go to me, although I haven't analysed it significantly. I guess if you are on a really long event and need enough for a main disc then using this could be useful before hand, but if it's just for the fluff clicks then likely not. Anyway my bet is this disc was designed when they still had plans to nerf Rest. (Indeed they may still have plans to nerf it.)
I didnt parse crimson fist but other monks were saying when they did it was less of an endurance gain than seven breaths. And same timer, so why loose dps to use a disc that returns less endurance. The feedback was there supported by the numbers but guess it got over looked or something. As for contraforce it recieved some tweaks which is great but one of the biggest problems was that this disc was more for the group game but locks out a key pulling disc for 10 minutes. I posted feedback on this showing each timer saying it would work or would not work on each timer in group or raid. Then suggested alternate timers to use and even prioritized the suggestions mentioning why each would be better. But the timer was not changed. Not sure how much more monks coould have done to make the best out of discs we didnt really want. Not saying we dont want new discs just these wernt too apealing when we would have loved upgrades to crane stance ironfist or drunkenmonkey
Even if they do nerf Rest, we still have 2 other Endo Discs. Monks having 3 endo discs was BS to begin with. We must need a 4th one right! A 4th one that's worse than the ones we already have... You can tell they thought long and hard about this one. It's got to the point, for the first time in like 12+ years of playing, that I didn't even log in on a content release because I knew their wasn't sh@$ for my class. What really is making me mad, is the Dev's inability to produce SOMETHING that we can actually use. I was not expecting to get mad DPS upgrades, I just wanted something useful!! Is that really so much to ask? I want a disc that I will use, not something you memorize and never even make a hotkey for it because it's a total piece of SH#$. For 2-3 years now, this is all the monk has got, Crap a%$ discs that are either A. 100% useless or B. They have a use, but only in like less than 5% of situations. What the hell is the point of making stuff that is literally, USELESS. So if the devs didn't want to give us any dps what so ever, Fine, then give us some more utility, or defense, or give us our first ADPS like we should have. A new Fists of Wu that effects Triple attack or something. Every single other DPS class has one except monks. They farmed FD out to every class in the game, in 2 forms! They just farmed run speed 8 out to every class with the new Traveler achievements. They farmed the monks eye of storm out to rouges and made it better in every single way (knifeplay). I'm getting real sick of this crap fast. Not only are monks not progressing, but we also have been losing class defining abilities. If they were smart, they would give every single class useful stuff, every single update. So people actually have something to be excited about. You can still do class balancing while giving everyone something, you just give the classes that need a boost, more than what your giving the others. This giving some classes a TON of nice stuff, and other classes get nothing, is bull Sh%^ and it's straight up stupid. A great way to lose tons of business for no good reason other than they won't listin to the player base. Their were countless great ideas that were put out their, but every single one got ignored yet AGAIN.
this needs so much more then a like button......should be like a forums Oscar for this. /bow Dropfast
The parse in the opening post shows 32k endurance returned. There were several other longer parses done in beta by several other people and multiple sources were showing an average of 30-34k endurance returned. There is almost no situation in which Seven Breaths returns more endurance than Technique of the Crimson Fist (unless you were to click TotCF and then not be able to attack for a majority of its duration either because of being mezz'd/charm'd/etc.) I agree its strange that the melee class in least need of more endurance is getting a disc for that purpose, however the people making statements claiming that the disc is undertuned are flat out uninformed. It's particularly sad in this case that a CRT(sojuu) is also "passing along" the incorrect information like a bad game of telephone, instead of finding out the information for themselves first-hand before making posts such as the above. I'd liken it to claiming a product is defunct because you don't have a reason to use it, and while its certainly one thing to argue why you don't need it... when you try to say it doesn't even serve its intended purpose it makes it appear as though you don't know what you're talking about.
for one here never questioned it doing its "purpose", to most of us tho I fail to see its usefulness.
Sojuu, who is both a Monk and a CRT member, in this very thread said that he was under the impression that it returned less endurance than Seventh Breaths. That would be a statement claiming its undertuned in its purpose of returning endurance. And those sorts of statements are weighing down the arguments for why its an unneeded disc for the class or what to change the effect to, to make it usable. Did any Monk suggest changing the Return % dmg from endurance to HP? Or what about changing the proc slightly to a straight dmg proc with a recourse for endurance return on the group giving it more utility? Obviously those are just two random ideas off the top of my head and aren't exactly serious, but the point is Monks would be alot better served having a discussion about what changes the disc would need to make it usable instead of having a pow-wow on how useless it is. Some of you are content just complaining without trying to come up with any solution other than "give us a completely different disc" which isn't likely to happen.
Personally ToCF does it's purpose.The one time i did use it i gained back like 28% endurance to see if it did anything worthwhile. I just find it usefulness not able to be seen, because from using it i dropped on a raid parse somewhat and that makes me not happy. I would rather just hit 7 breath even if it gives less endurance then this could over a 112 seconds and lose 12 seconds of dps from channeling 7 Breath compared to lowered DPS for almost 2 minutes. I do not see the usefulness in dropping down our DPS just to gain endurance, I would rather zerg with 0 endurance then use it. We already crit the least amount of the time then the other pure melee classes as is if i remember right, so why would we want to decrease that which is already lower then others by 25% more and take a decrease all skills damage mod by 10% and doesnt stack with Zan Fi? Only way i would ever use it is take out the lower crit chance mod and the decrease skills damage mod completely out of the disc. Lower then endur gain and time frame of it's use if the devs want, but that is what i would wish to happen, but i'm a cynic on it. Can't blame myself for being a cynic though after discs like these 2 coming out... Either way as it stands now it is going to stay in my list of discs never used but own because i like having everything completely.
to make myself clear Behelit, I m not questioning your comment or saying he didnt say that, just saying overrall imo? its a waste of a AA. Plenty of ways of getting endurance without it and we for too long have gone without something of a more useful upgrade....ID ranks...Purify ranks..../gasp something of a dps boost like rogues got or maybe even something Defensive. I Dont believe GAINING endurance was remotely on anyones radar for an AA.
Monks are a DPS class. Endurance is used to do damage. So, if a disc lowers damage to return end, that seems pretty counter-productive, right? Personally, if I'm out of end, I've probably used all my big discs already, and lowering my DPS further to regain end won't help. Monks gave plenty of feedback on the new discs in the beta forum. This was largely ignored. And no, it wasn't all 'give us something different'. There was constructive feedback to both discs, and ideas on how these could be done better.
As I stated I did not do the parsing. Was done by others and I guess I should have stated I went off the conclusions of those that did the parsing. This time around I just did not find the time to do testing with real life obligations
I guess you haven't seen the Ranger/Beastlord/Berserker BP clicks for CotF then? The Devs clearly feel that abilities that return primary resource should come at a penalty. Most of the feedback was from people who hadnt done any parsing on the disc so it probably went ignored. It's live though now, so what's preventing you from setting up a parse on a dummy in guild hall before making posts supporting claims that you can't verify? You don't see how that's detrimental to getting any changes made?
If you're given a fork when what you really need is a spoon, it doesn't matter how nice and shiny they make that fork, it still won't get the job done. Monks: Hey devs, we're ok on the endurance front, but we could use some DPS upgrades. Devs: Here you go, less DPS and more endurance, congrats!
why are you even touching on zerkers rangers and beasts in a monk AA discussion?? and why so hell bent on a useless AA?? Are you looking to top parses for most endurance or DPS? mobs aint dying from endurance and the gain from it is nominal at best. Most SMART monks dont even find endurance to be a problem even on ROT, there are so many ways to gain endurance without the useless AA and perhaps the time it took them to "give" it to us and could have spent it on a AA that was actually of some use.
The fact that other classes have had bad discs, aa, bp clicks and what not over the years doesn't make ours any better. A whole bunch of wrongs don't make a right.
And again its posts like these that are your problem, its not an AA its a spell. Perhaps if you actually sounded like you knew what you were talking about you would be taken more seriously by the Devs. But please do go on explaining how an intelligent Monk would never use this "AA". I'm not bringing up the class BP's as another "wrong" to justify Technique of the Crimson Fist, I'm using it as an example that resource returning abilities have all had downsides recently and its a clear design decision.
