Mix it up a bit for new expansions

FTP doesn't mean you can kill and play at all content levels. There is plenty of content that a FTP player can do just fine in.

There were not 30 people that vetoed the idea for a new catch-up expansion, it was more or less just Warrin McMarrin, 30 times, and he only vetoed it because he has the entitled fear that it will eat into top end content.

You are again repeating something over and over, that has already been debunked as nonsense. Catch-up expansions and standard expansions are two very different things. It does not work the way that you think it would work, for random Joe. It might work for yourself only.

And that is the problem. It does not work for catch-up where players do level up faster than they can aquire gear and platinum. In most situations they have to buy expensive NPC shop gear or items from the bazaar. Expensive because the NPC shop gear was meant for rich players that leveled up slowly. Catch-up players do level up fast and therefor are poor. They often have to buy and sell Kronoj for financing their level-up process, and as a side note, not all players can buy Kronoj by technical limitations. Kronoj can be only bought by credit cards and not by debit.

An alternative would be to reduce the prices for T1 shop gear and adding furher defiant gear. Instead, a catch-up expansion would be so much better for a lot other reasons that had been already mentioned in the discussion. The problem is not only gear and platinum.

Underfoot and most parts of SoD and PoR are not suitable as catch-up expansions. They were mostly meant for very well geared PCs like raiders (the typical top end crowd) in the tradition of GoD.

and that is poor mmorpg design. every expansion that includes a level cap increase should have a catch up mechanic to the group game level that does not require you have the previous expansions highest tier of raid gear. not anymore.

just because it was done that way 20 years ago does not mean it should be that way now, not if you want to see new players and new player retention who have to slog their way through all of that without the benefits of months in between to catch up naturally.

Very unlucky wording then. According to that, EQ is in a pre-maintenance mode. Do you agree with that definition ?

Even worse is that catching-up players have to do the whole process alone which hugely furthered boxing. The top end geared players were/are able to form multiplayer groups for that.

I've noticed a strange throwaway mentality among team Darkpaw. After an expansion is released, the motto seems to be: "After me, the flood!", which is intended to express that the developers don't care about old game content. Planning there is always short-term and no one is responsible for the overall overview, or they don't do their job properly.

What exactly is pre maintenance mode supposed to be? Daybreak is still spending money and time upgrading Everquest with an upgrade to 64 bit complete, an upgrade to direct x 11 almost complete and upgrading to a new UI engine. If it was anywhere close to going into "maintenance mode" they wouldn't be spending the money and resources needed for those upgrades.

You're FTP right?
You're playing the game right?
Able to log in and create characters and play the game?

Alright. Nothing underhanded or dubious then. Glad that's cleared up

30 was a bit of an exaggeration, but the case is it's still 5 to 1 (at least) against the idea. You don't make content for 20% and risk losing the 80%. Bad business model.

I keep repeating myself because you keep repeating yourself because you do not understand. There is no such thing as a catch-up expansion. There never was. TSS was not a catch-up expansion.

And what is the definition of a "catch up" expansion anyway.

First that's wrong. I do not own any credit cards and am able to purchase Krono just fine.
Second, by the time you hit 95-100, you no longer out-level your gear. Mobs get tougher so exp rolls in a little slower. So long as you're doing the things that grant gear. So by level 100, you're technically caught up. Anything before that doesn't really matter as content is easier so you don't need to stay as current with your gear.

Because catch up expansions do not exist. And you're right. They were meant for people who played in previous expansions and geared up in previous levels.

Great thing about past expansions like Underfoot that never went up in max levels...you don't have to play in them. It's a level 85 expansion. Know what else was a level 85 expansion? SoD. Know which one is easier to level up in? SoD. So you go 80-85 in SoD, then you skip UF, and go right into HoT.

There are so many options and leveling paths in EQ that it almost feels like cheating being able to skip the hard stuff that in-era folks had to deal with. Another reason why "catch up" expansions/zones aren't needed. They already exist.

And i'll reiterate: a catch up zone isn't going to offer level 110 rewards for a level 100 zone. It's still going offer level 100 rewards, like every other level 100 zone. And we've already got plenty of level 100 zones, so adding another isn't going to do anything

Introduction to mercenaries took that away. Now you have 2 people tackling the same content instead of it being just 1. Meaning you do not have to be as geared as you did before (in a solo aspect). Groups never had to be fully decked out to tackle the next expansion anyway.

Solution: stop trying to take a group game and play it solo. I've got nothing against playing that way, it's the way i've played most of my EQ days, but i also recognize it's not a solo game and not complaining when I'm unable to do something solo either.

/facepalm

Numbers out of the blue with no proof.

/facepalm

I just checked the payment methods for Krono again: It can be chosen between several credit cards and paypal.

Those are not catch-up expansions and you are contradicting yourself:

TSS was a catch-up expansions, beside many earlier ones. It was able to replace Original EQ and 11 expansions when it got released. The players are able to level up their toons only in TSS from level 1-84.

1) I never said they were catch up expansions. I simply said you did not need to play in harder expansions (the ones that do not increase max level) and make life harder on yourself when there's other options with very similar experience gains.

2) TSS was not a catch up expansion. Being able to level from 1 to the current max does not make it a catch up expansion. Now if every zone had the very best experience for it's level range, then I would agree it would be. Even when TSS released and it increased experience gains as a whole, once you hit level 35 or level 40, better experience can be found in zones from past expansions.

40-70 you're better off in Kunark to PoP zones for experience. Lower HP mobs, similar experience per kill. Faster kills = more experience an hour or play session than slower kills with higher experience per kill.

So how is it a catch up expansion when you're better off going back to previous expansions to level? This is the thing you're missing. Being able to go from a set level to max doesn't make it a catch up expansion. A catch up expansion would require vastly superior experience gains and rewards than other zones corresponding to that level range...and we don't have that. Prime example being what i just explained with TSS. The first 3 zones are fantastic (CR / Blightfire / StoneHive) - after that, time to go backwards.

Edit:

I got bored and went back through and counted all the yes to a catch up expansion and all the no's - sorry it wasn't 20/80. It's 30/70. Still not a good business model

Hoping this Laurion's Inn, is like Plane of Hate but good NPCs and bad NPCs.
Going inside buildings and fighting stuff, lots of buildings.
Urban expansion.

Dulak, Gunthak, Plane of Hate, Highpass Hold,
urban areas. Good and Bad NPCs. Faction based expansion, you pick which side.

Would like more open world stuff too, so Roleplaying.

Old EQ, the fun times EQ
50+ people in a zone
they don't go into everyone wins, everyone gets participation trophy instances when there is 25 people.

Social game.
"please let me know when there is room"
"please let me know when you are done camping here"

Roleplaying Social aspect of EQ is far gone the past 10 years year after year.
Why do people play TLPs, its crowded its fun, its hectic.

People should just be camping 1-2 nameds, not half the zone nameds.
If people can camp half the zone nameds that's just not traditional EQ.

Unrest, top floor, basement, middle floor, main floor camped camped camped.
The guys in the basement wiped, lets go claim it.
EQ today, its half/all the zone is mine. Thats not EQ people remember.

Tell me you don't play current EQ without telling me you don't play current EQ

i'm sorry but TSS was a catch up expansion as it made the entire process easier, centralized and more accessible. it had questing, introduced tradeskilling when before nothing really did, and the zones dropped a LOT of platinum or items that sold for a lot of platinum. couple hours in the roost was and still is extremely lucrative.

I just covered how it wasn't. Again, once you were done with the first 3 zones of the expansion, it was faster to level in other expansions zones. Centralized isn't always faster/better. Case in point: TSS. Not to mention PoK still existed with all its stones.

As does every other zone in EQ

Umm...Every starting city had tradeskilling merchants. PoK had trade skilling merchants as well. And that was very centralized.

This is true. It's one of the better money making expansions. But that's about the only thing you said that held any truth.

If it was such a great catch up expansion, how come no one levels 1-75 in TSS these days? Why is it 1-30 in TSS, and then off to other, BETTER zones for experience? Doesn't quite hold up

the hero's journey requires tradeskilling. if you are following it, you are introduced to tradeskilling in a natrual way. it's no less annoying to do.

it was the first time new players would be given a reason to bother.

That's also assuming new players followed Hero's Journey. Not to mention the end of Hero's Journey doesn't come until a few expansions later as well.

And it's mentioned that if you actually read the quest text, you can skip the tradeskilling stuff yourself and do a hand in to an NPC that does it for you.

Afer claiming the existence of catch-up expansions, you now do state that SoD and HoT do not belong to existing catch-up expansions, but you don't want to tell us, which expansions are catch-up expansions ? Which are the catch-up expansions that you mentioned ?

Catch-up expansions do not have to grant the best possible experience per hour. They do offer many other benefits instead. To name a few:

• Consistency: By design, main story, quests, and equipment.
• Continuity: Player can stay in one expansion for a huge level range.
• Accessibility / Orientation: Everything is easier to find than on scattered and hidden expansions and zones.
• Difficulty: No overly difficult content like in GoD, UF, RoS, ToV, NoS, etc.
• Graphics: Up-to-date graphics that are better than those from all the expansions before, for a large level range and a better newbie experience.
• Modernization: Possibility to add revamped older zones as a copy.
• Guidance: Concentrating the player crowd into one expansion instead of many. Showing them a main path and adding helper functions/items like the Hero's Journey / Tome of the Hero's Journey.
• Catch-up gear (like Defiant gear)
• Newbie experience and replay factor: The sum of everything above.

.
TSS was a catch-up expansion, and the best of all. Beside the zones, the following catch-up features got added:

• Defiant gear
• Fast regeneration mode
• Hero's Journey / Tome of the Hero's Journey (book item guide)

.

Alright, thank you for counting that. I have counted 5:8 which is 40/60 %. Most of the contra "voters" are against a further catch-up expansion because they do think that there are already enough zones and that it would reduce the amount of the top end zones of new expansions. Not the best and often egoistic arguments imo.

Pro catch-up expansion:

1. Iven
2. ~Mills~
3. uberkingkong
4. Dre.
5. Lesser Archi

(Dixa - pro catch-up zones in new expansions)


Contra catch-up expansion:

1. Randomized
2. Yinla
3. Warrin McMarrin
4. Windance
5. Zalkk - AB
6. Svann2
7. Corwyhn Lionheart
8. Skuz

.
If any of the "votes" are wrong, or if you changed your mind, let me know !

Catch up expansions/zones are not needed because we have expansions and zones you can level through and catch up already ***

Two different things. Maybe just worded funny.

This is every expansion. You can stay in a single expansion for roughly 20 levels (even with them only being a 5 level range). SoD for example only requires level 60 or 65 to access quests. Mobs start around level 70ish (72 I think) - and add in "weak" mobs that are over-conned meaning you can start in at 65 and go clear up to 85. And when HoT drops, you can actually go further as mobs go clear up into the 80-87 range allowing you to level from 65-90.

Every expansion has this level range if you stay in the expansion. And there isn't any scattered or hidden expansions. Once you enter an expansion, all the expansions zones tree off that entry zone and it's connectors.

TSS was not a catch up expansion. The two features you mentioned were game wide and could be found all the way back in Classic era zones/mobs. And OOC was available in pre-75 content as well. Great for the overall game, but again, not a catch up expansion as once you hit 30, experience came better/faster in Kunark-->PoP zones. Meaning half of TSS was pointless to try to "catch up" in. You were better leaving TSS behind. Like I mentioned to Dixa, if it's such a great catch up expansion, why do we never see anyone leveling 1-75 in just TSS zones? Why are they always leaving after 30-35?

Not a good catch up zone when the level increase goes from 70-75 and it's only good for catching up to level 30.

It was 6 to 19. Or now that I'm thinking back on it, 6 out of 19.

So 30/70 for 6 yes and 13 no, or 25/75 for 6 yes and 19 no. This wasn't counting the people who chimed in and said maybe's or either ways. Strictly for's and strictly againsts (also not counting people who liked on only yes's and no's)

You are way to much focused on experience rewards. The game has so much more to offer, and you are reducing yourself to ~5% of the content with that mindset. TSS has more quests to offer than any other expansion I think, and they are better done and more coherent than those of other expansions. Even with outdated rewards it is fun doing them, just for the story and the adventures.

No, not every expansion is like TSS. Classic has a level range of 55, TRoK has a level range of 70, TSoL has a level range of 75, TSS has a level range of 85, and modern expansions like NoS have only a level range of 15 (lvl 115-121 mobs). 85 vs 15 is a major difference and factor 5.7.

Only because you have counted in multiple votes from McMarrin and yourself.

I'm not. I'm not the one who keeps bringing "catch up" expansion into the conversation. What do you think a catch up expansion entails? Faster ways to catch up to the current end game where the whole of the player base is.

It's not about fun (which is subjective because I enjoy Kunark and HoT) quests. If that's the case, every expansion is a catch up expansion by that definition.

I never said every expansion was like TSS. What I said was every expansion has everything you listed as per:

Again, as per your definition of a catch up expansion, this applies to EVERY expansion the game has.

And that was over 20 years ago. With the release of Planes of Power, which was 2002, only 3 and a half years after EQ released, it no longer focused on the lower levels, it focused on 45(or 46) up to 65 (why? because it didn't introduce a new race/class and by that time, the player base was top heavy, like it is now). And that trend continued, with the exception of the one new race 4 years later. So out of 25 years, there has been only 4-5 expansions that bothered with low level zones. And that was when the game was still very new. They quit well before TSS and there's no reason to do it again (if there was, they would have by now). It's a very simple concept and i'm unsure how you're unable to grasp it.

Nope. Counted everyone only once. Wrote them all down as well.