QFT- I am trying to remember how long its been since this might not of been true, hands down best ADPS and probably close to shaman in overall utility. You really need to talk to a math-head. We got a few on these boards. Hit em up. Definitely not true, since at least DoDH. They may be the best puller's if they are the only person in the zone. The devs and coder's stopped trying to fix pathing a long, long time ago. Letting a bard pull is a dice roll on whether you train another group or your own. I do not let bards pull. Not their fault, just how it is.
He absolutely does not. Unfortunately he's a Monk at heart and no one wants those while everyone wants Bards.
I'm a spectacularly bad Bard by any standard and even I can pull singles almost everywhere. Training your group is difficult for a class with functionally an almost unlimited instant-cast fade ability. PS: this quote is from the same thread. Just like my last one was.
I don't understand this comment. Pathing differs, depending on the class of the puller? If pathing stinks, it stinks for everyone, not just one class.
He's actually a really good bard and seemed to be complaining about bard mez being broken in TBL. So, if they're losing utility then they should compensate bards in some other way. Either fix the mez issues or give them something else. There's nothing wrong with asking for more DPS since theirs is low relative to other classes. Enchanters should get a DPS bump too. The nerf they got last year was way too much. But at least they're not suffering from the mez/crowd control problems.
if you are a bard, relying on mez for pulls.. you are not doing things right. simple fact. Bards have a wide variety of pulling options, and mez is my tool of last resort. I've had no problems pulling for groups in TBL.
So if you have just two mobs you don't mezz one, kill the other, then break mezz and let the other one come to be killed???
I know little about bards but on my enc I'd just punt and blur one of the two. Then you get one safe pull coming in and it's quicker than casting spells. I'm sure there's plenty of other ways besides relying on mez.
QFT Both Bards and Enchanters could use a bump in DPS. Particularly Enchanters that, in my opinion, don't have the same level of utility as the Bard class. They can easily swap between three different archetype groups while Enchanters are limited to one. I feel like I've argued for this until I'm blue in the face already, so I won't go on a rant here. But I do strongly feel its an issue that needs to be addressed if we're going to retain Bard and Enchanter mains moving into the future.
An FD puller will agro a few mobs and tug the one or ones they want out. A pacifier will pacify the ones they don't want out, and only get the ones they do. A snare splitter will permasplit the mobs before they move that far. A punt-splitter will push all the ones they dont wan't away leaving the ones the do want in range. A bard will just agro everything with no control on any of them and then actually rely on the mobs pathing to separate them. I am sure you have seen uncontrolled mobs run in bizarre straight lines along their pathing routes before. They do this to a bunch of mobs at once. There is no telling where they end up, or if they will warp. On multiple occasions I have had bards try to pull a quest mob, and end up putting the mob under the zone. If your quest is missing a mob to update it, chances are a bard has been in the zone at some earlier point, and put that mob under the world. You have to wait for a zone reset to undo this damage.
If he meant pulling in raid version of fire, yea it can be difficult. No mez, no snare, no calm, and even the memblur of silent displacement does not work. Silent displacement one far enough from the other then fade works, or else have tank do a warriors grasp or whatever that is they have. But yea aside from that zone Ive never had an issue. OTOH, I do like to take a break from pulling sometimes so if monks and etc want to please feel free.
I've been playing a bard since early 2000 and I do not recall ever having done any of those things ever. OTOH I never pulled for a raid in fire but in raids bards are considered too important to the group they're in to be sent out pulling Bards have every tool listed except FD though they have a great fade...I am not sure what Ninelder is even talking about though
I wanna be diplomatic here so ill simply say i strongly disagree. When talking splitting mobs all we are really talking about is getting seperation from one mobs call for help bubble from another mobs assist to the original call for help bubble...those 1 thru howevermany bubbles should not overlap for a clean split. Mez has always been an excellent means to achieve seperation...so has snare...so has root click...so has swarm pets for that matter...so has displacement...etc etc. Ive rarely had an issue with mez in terms of gaining seperation...if it resists theres always resists modifications...if it still resists theres 10000 ways under the sun to gain seperation. It is usually my first means of pulling because if it goes per usual i find its by far one of the easiest/fastest ways to split mobs...not pull, but split.
All i'm asking for is bards to get breather like every other class with disciplines and give us some activated stuff like spammables or a defensive. Maybe even a sustained disci for dps considering we only have 1 burn. Everyone saying omg bards are op, go ahead put 1m reuse on our alliance and watch the real bards shine that use nukes and give groups proper adps instead of being the 1 bard using only alliance while the other 5 use nukes to trigger it.
Gonna be generous here and possibly suggest you might have a toon in the group, most times its an SK, that uses some type of group he al/proc or tap that is landing on the bard(important phrase incoming) POST AGGRO, PRE FADE. Agro referring to if the bard is leaving camp during group engagement splitting mobs to be brung back to camp. A simple buff block on the bard on the offending culprit should put the end to any trains from bard. The rest baffles me at your description of how a bard splits mobs. The real knowlegeable bards know how to use assist dynamics alone to achieve any of the aforementioned ways of splitting even if its not the most desired. Bard can literally pull a mob thru an entire zone on top of injury 1000s of social mobs, single with a little bit of knowledge and a tiny bit of execution. I will not dog on your bard comrade as i wish you all many happy journies but i do not concur.
All this talk about it being hard to pull, honestly the hardest thing for me is the mob casting a huge dot/DD on me every pull that even with cures will do some dmg so my pull distance has been reduced by a ton. Having mez and lull spells work more is always welcome but you should be able to pull almost anything.
Bards do deserve Breather, absolutely no reason to exclude them from that disc line when they rely heavily on endurance. Maybe the devs don't understand how fast bards can run out of endurance. He's a great bard. Monks are still tops on pulling. Always have been. But that's comin from a monk.'=)
