No, not if you use /comp on apps and have any kind of record keeping or ask the app questions like what guild did you beat Shard's Landing with on April 10th at 20:47:12.
I think he was hinting that there would be repercussions for the account, not just the character. (permaban/suspension)
While banning the account will penalize someone for doing this. It would not stop them from doing it with another character. My wife has leveled a character from 1 to 75 in less than 2 months and I think over 200AA's. She is by no means a hardcore player and hasn't gotten more help from me than she could get from grouping with random people, which she never does. Someone who has gotten high enough one to even be allowed on a raid, let alone app to a Guild would have no problem getting to that point in the same amount of time and likely less. Unless they do an ip ban, which still wouldn't stop someone with half a brain with computers, there is unlikely ANY way to keep the same individual from doing it again. Likely some jack *** that couldn't even equip most of the items anyway. Those people are getting more prevalent in general. While punishment would be ideal, I wouldn't count on it being a deterrent. Most people have more than one account anyway. I've got 6 or more myself and have probably forgotten the passwords to half of them. Even WoW doesn't ban more than the single account and they are much more strict on the rules. Just black list the character and move on. I doubt there are more than a handful of guilds on your server doing current content. Really easy to spread the word. If the other guilds don't listen. .. Well, they were warned at least. Unless someone has prepaid more than a month or 3, losing one account is not really punishment.
The point is, if the policy is to strip the loot and suspend or ban people who do this, there is no motivation to spend all that time levelling up a new character and then ninja looting something. You won't get to keep it, so why bother? It's a lot of effort to expend just to be a pest with nothing to gain from it. This is why as Piestro said these sorts of incidents have been few and far between. I can think of about a dozen times where I've seen something ninja'd, but that's over 14 years of playing. And it seemed to happen a lot more in the early days while both community standards were still being developed and people didn't know how GM's would respond. Also, for people who suggested /comp, that's a great idea and I'm glad you've got that tool, but the incident that prompted my post happened on one of the progression servers. We don't have achievements yet, so /comp won't work for us. I'll be sure we start doing that as soon as we get to that point though!
Ninja looting was WAY more prevalent when: 1) Book to med 2) No messages saying who looted what 3) No one had caught onto the oops I disbanded method If people see it, it isn't really the work of a ninja
Ninjas who server transfer can elude any player oversight. The community COULD handle this itself with a few tools that might be simple enough for SOE to give to us. Guildleaders of certain size guilds should have a forum or channel where we could post names, classes, other identifying info. (Forum managers can see their IPs.) Cross-server cooperation could go a long way towards punishing those who abuse the system. It could also be used for identify ebayers, but in my experience, the raidleader didn't care where the toon came from. More creatively, if the game were more like RL, the raidleader could put a mark or bounty on the player that turns him into PVP until the raiders have had their revenge on him. Say, loss of 10 levels. That would be great fun!
when i was recruiter for a previous guild i always thought it would be cool if soe implented a way for guild's or people in general too see easily if the person in question that app'd or wanted a spot in group did something wrong on their toon..something next to their name or a different color name..kinda unfair to give people that ks and ninja tools to change names, races and even servers without anyway for people to know gives the bad players an unfair advantage..or maybe if you got banned for hacking or any other action make it where your account cannot buy those potions
Is this actually happening? Unfortunately the same guy who prompted my initial post changed his name and then ninja looted a second entire chest from another guild on our server as an app several weeks ago (https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...oting-and-sonys-policies.205784/#post-3021828). After which, he name changed again, and then applied to our guild again this week. Still using the same toon. Despite assurances from GM's that action would be taken against his account. He had all the items he ninja looted from both guilds still equipped as of his application to us this week, verified by multiple people inspecting him. Interestingly, he still had the items that the GM staff "returned" to us after the first incident. Oops. (One of the items he ninja looted, Jagged Ring of the Bloodeye, has only dropped three times on the server--only two guilds have beaten the event--and we know everyone who has looted one. So when we see a no name monk with no history in either guild show up wearing one, it's not hard to figure out where it came from. Remember this is a progression server, no server transfers, and every time the events are defeated we get a systemwide message, so there's no possibility someone else looted one of these without anyone knowing about it.) Is really nothing permanent going to be done about a serial offender like this? Clearly giving this guy vacations is not sufficient discouragement (if that even happened.) Nor is he concerned with being booted from guilds or blacklisted.
Achievements make it harder to hide. the problem lies in how extensively a guild is willing to vet their apps. If a guild is willing to spend 20-30 min vetting an app though I think it's fairly easy to find an adequate amount of information on their past even if they have namechanged and race changed. The raiding population is so small these days that it's really easy to figure out who someone is not just from their typing mannerisms but also from their gear trophy items in their bags and achievements.
If he apped to your guild why did the admin of the site not look at his IP address, if the IP address was coming from a proxy it would have at least been a redflag of "something shady" Don't get me wrong I think ninja looters are very much deserving of punishment and I think it sucks what he did to you guys but I'm thinking maybe the people that are admins at your guild site didn't even spend 2 seconds vetting him.
Actually, it seems mine (and most here) impression that it is you who is lawyering the PNP text to suit your argument. It's very transparent and most un-clever. The fact that CS will no longer handle loot mistakes, has no bearing on the PNP, Ninja Looting, and resultant fraud. There are years of precident to uphold the "general reading" and understood intent of the PNP. -R Edit: Yes.. I should have read ahead before posting the above. But since the official word from Piestro supports the long standing reading of PNP - I'll let the (now redundant) post stay.
We are vetting our apps Falos, this is obvious by Machens post and their subsequent warning to us that the monk was back and apping again based on their IP address. The problem lies in the fact that we are now made to do this since there is no action taken against these accounts. If the Ninja looter was smarter he would at least hide the stolen items for a time in his bags or bank. But these days they have no need to do so as SOE has given them a free pass to Ninja loot and carry on their business.
We did vet his app. It was immediately obvious based on ip address and what he actually wrote in the application that it was the same guy. The genius also logged into our voice chat server using his old account (we asked him to hop in because we were fully aware who it was and we wanted to mess with him a a bit.) We're not concerned that the guy is going to succeed to get back into our guild. We are concerned that he is still allowed to try without repercussion, on the same toon.
We are on the progression servers, we don't have achievements in game yet so we have to do it the old school way.
first of all what machen stated is wrong, the monk who ninja'd citizens chest is different than the monk who ninja'd DB's chest they are 2 seperate toons. So stating hes wearing the ring which was ninja'd from you "jagged ring of the bloodeye" is false as the monk that ninja'd citizens chest looted a fc2 beltron chest which had the icy ring of boreal whatever in it. The DB chest had the jagged ring of the bloodeye. You said "He had all the items he ninja looted from both guilds still equipped as of his application to us this week, verified by multiple people inspecting him." Thats just plain false and just people claiming things they know nothing about just to be supporters of their guild to seem "strong parts of the team!!" The monk who looted citi's chest and the monk who looted DB's chest couldnt wear those armor peices on one toon as they are two different toons. The only similar item each toon had was tss raid legs... Hey maybe the guy thought since the rules changed its ok to do now, and its not harassment, when the light goes green it means go, so when soe has a pnp in place and says there are no longer penalties for it then it must not be wrong as its a video game not real life. If im playing mario bros and i take the mushroom over my friend he doesnt scream HARASSMENT or PLAY NICE POLICY. No my buddy would sack up and fight for that next mushroom and say see i needed to be big more than you needed the extra 100 points since youre already big. Ya you have a dkp policy in place well the recruit wasnt made full member and didnt agree to the rules so you punished him by booting him from the guild as thats your right. But it was his right to loot said items as he had the tools to do so. Ya know way more people back in the day thought the world was flat until one guy said nope youre all wrong, just because the majority says hes wrong doesnt mean crap, ya he could be wrong, but just because the majority thinks so isnt a definite. The weapon would be in the best upgraded and skilled members hands. While the gear would just keep him alive better to use said weapon upgrade and click the useful circle click. If you dont agree oh well, I got the "mushroom" first. Now choose to not play with said monk's or go small and let members get bag toy weapons when they have better leaving your recruits to be garbage, instead of helpful in current content. Lol i cant believe i referenced mario im awesome. PS hi leerah
I find funny the last part of the argument, since Darkblood (and to some extent Citizen) are probably some of the guilds were is easiest for recruits/new members to get in-era gear. The real issue here is that SOE customer support is implicitly saying "Looting items on instanced raids without permission is entirely acceptable, so next time a guild beats an encounters loot all you wnt, and if you get harrassed we can sell you name/race/gender transfers to prevent it!". This is not just restricted to progression servers, but to live servers as well. There is a difference between mistakely looting, and "ill intended looting". The last one should still be reviewed in a case by case basis, if not on live servers at least on progression servers that are still "paid only" servers. Again, we are not talking about someone that looted the chest by mistake or because "it would have gone to someone's bag if not". We are talking about someone that, in secuence: Dropped from the raid by himself Looted the whole chest Gated Disbanded himself from the guild Namechanged
They're not implicitly saying anything. In fact, they explicity said the exact opposite in this very thread. The fact that someone claims that someone else got away with it (even if true) should not be mistaken for policy.
What they are saying and what they are doing are two different things. I'd like to see them do what they said they would do in this thread.
