In Anguish Over Anguish

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lockdown, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    With that logic then all future raids being created should have a single player needed to request.

    This would be an interesting topic for the next beta.
  2. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Agreed! Is that a problem? If I want to request a current expansion raid all by myself and get myself curbstomped in 10 seconds, is that an issue for some reason? I don't see any benefits whatsoever to requiring 6 characters to request anything in the game. Or really requiring any number of characters greater than one. It just creates a minor inconvenience once the content becomes trivial, and it has no benefits to anyone.
    Lockdown and MasterMagnus like this.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    With current raids there are drops to farm from trash so it is not just about being able to complete the raids or not. I am not sure they intend for the drops for the charm luck aug and the type 19 to be farmed by solo players.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  4. Nniki Augur

    Regardless of whether or not it was intended, it does nothing to prevent it.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  5. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I think the original reason was that instances was taxing the serverload?
    The question is: Is it more demanding to spin up an instance, than requiring people to increase the number of (alt-)chars six-fold?
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  6. code-zero Augur

    Of course if you aren't in a raid and don't need 5 other player characters in the group then you can use Mercs in the instance.

    They're not likely to ever do that
  7. Nniki Augur

    Raid zone instances already prevent the use of mercenaries, even if you aren't in raid format or are even solo.

    Zones can be set as to whether or not mercenaries are permitted. As an example, earlier in the year, the Seeking the Sorcerer group mission was broken where it was no longer allowing mercenaries and then hotfixed:
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    True, but that's a thing from the very beginning of classic instanced raids on TLP servers. People are spinning up Sol B DZ's with no intention of killing Nagafen, just killing giants/named etc. Is there some reason why that's not ok for someone to do with a single player, or a duo box, etc?
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Zones take up a lot of resources and is that really good to have lots of players spin up private zones?
    code-zero likes this.
  10. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    How many players do you realistically think go through the thought process "well, I would start my own private instance, but I'd have to spend 5 minutes loading up alts. oh well, no instance for me, more resources for the server, yay!" My prediction: almost none. If people want to start an instance, they jump through a few hoops and start one. Removing those hoops would improve the player experience a bit.
  11. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    In the past they claimed that they were going to have the raid request min requirements lower over time, but like a lot of similar things, that never went past its initial phases. At this point in time on Live servers, you should be allowed to request all raids through, at least, UF with only 1 person. It should be tied to expansion unlocks like many other things are.

    1. Content that is more than 10 expansions back should be unlockable with just 1 person.
    2. Content that is more than 7 expansions back should be unlockable with just 6 people.
    3. Content that is more than 4 expansions back should be unlockable with just 12 people.
    1. Content that is more than 10 expansions back should be unlockable with just 1 person.
    2. Content that is more than 8 expansions back should be unlockable with just 3 people.
    3. Content that is more than 6 expansions back should be unlockable with just 6 people.
    4. Content that is more than 4 expansions back should be unlockable with just 12 people.
    Either of those would be reasonable rolling decreases in the number of people required to request raids (and honestly group tasks/HA too). Now, the question then becomes whether this is something that can be done from a coding perspective at this point in time yet, and/or how large of an investment of resources would be needed to make it feasible.
    Being able to use 5, level 1, offline accounts to request a dz or mission makes the entire requirement of having 6 people in your group even more pointless, because then it is no longer there to prevent people who would beat the raids by cheating but instead is just there to be an annoyance, which at this time in the games life is not something that should be going on.
    Anguish you can, but there are other raids which do require you to be in raid format to request them.
    It is an anti-cheating move, the some of the programs among the Nameless allowed one to perform exploits that would let people kill those raid bosses with just a single person or a very few. Requiring at least 6 people was supposed to make it more of a hassle to do that back then, during which time the game was a lot more picky on whether it would count them or not. Also, back then it was a lot more taxing on single system to multi-box, so people would generally need a second system to make it work, and the character's levels would play a lot bigger part back then too.

    No, they would not. They would do the exact same thing that they have done with unlocking such things for the past 4?, 5?, more? years and tie this kind of unlocking to start at a specific expansion. They could tie each expansion's unlock to specific ones until it starts reaching a point where it will always be that way if they really want to do so. No split in requirements, they are then the same for both TLP and Live.
    Skuz and MasterMagnus like this.
  12. Drencrom Lorekeeper

    No, he meant you can't clear Deathknell with just boxes, which is a fact. And if you have trouble just killing 4 gargoyles with 15 minutes rest in between, then event 2 is completely out of your reach.

    You randomly get "vertigo" which makes you drunk, and also get ported around to random floors. You are required to bring a rogue or two, to disarm traps. Some mobs cast silence. There are some other crazy mechanics I forgot as well, but it's a ridiculous event. It might be the only one that still requires a full group or more, no matter how high level you are.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. CatsPaws I don't like titles

    Yes, I know. Which is why I clarified that I was boxing the first event not any others. I did not want to sound pompass
  14. Arborer Journeyman

    This is hardly something to "anguish" about! Seeing how Anguish was the final raid zone for that great old expansion, and killing the boss was so hard that I believe on some servers he wasnt downed until AFTER the following expansion went live, I think they should leave it as it is out of respect!

    And really, as others have said, how hard is it to recruit 5 friends, or make 5 alts, in order to get the raid?
    CatsPaws likes this.
  15. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Yeah! Making players spend 5 minutes jumping through pointless hoops to request a soloable zone is a great homage to the legend of the Citadel of Anguish. /eyeroll
  16. Wyre Wintermute Augur

    Exactly.. Naggy, Vox, PoFear/Hate/Sky.. all raid stuff.. Didn't need some magical number of people to enter and have my butt handed to me. Same with everything in Kunark.. Velious... Luclin... PoP up to PoTime.. I mean.. there is no real reason to have a minimum number of players requirement. If you need more than 1 to win (EG DK2 or DPoB's Sisters, etc..) then you find more, you lose, or you just don't do it.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    AoC, AoC, AoC!!!

    Why hasn't live been given AoCs yet???
    Raccoo and Yinla like this.
  18. Xyphen Maximum Augur

    I'd be more interested in the level spread requirement being dropped for old content. For example, being able to run the Vishimtar raid with a level 115 and 70.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Skuz like this.
  19. Arborer Journeyman

    The game is full of hoop-jumping and time sinks. It's true they do seem to selectively remove some of them from time to time. Like auto-combining for tradeskills. Old-timers remember the days before that when doing trade skills was almost guaranteed to eventually give you carpal tunnel syndrome. Hey, I wonder if that's why they did that, to avoid lawsuits...

    I'd like to see them remove minimum group/raid size for old raids. But a much bigger thing would be to remove flagging requirements to request or participate in older raids. All that does now is block players from enjoying old content that no longer really serves any purpose on non-TLP servers. They already remove progression requirements for zone access, such as minimum levels and other flagging. For example, Vex Thal access. And they seem able to "split off" that requirement between regular and TLP servers. So presumably they could do this with raid participation requirements in an across-the-board manner, opening up old raids progressively by expansion every time a new expansion comes out. I enjoy seeing these old raids after the fact but it's rather inhibiting when you have to do a bunch of time-consuming group missions and tasks just to request them. Now we're not talking five minutes but potentially many hours.
  20. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    While you cannot have mercs while in a raid, it isn't the raid format or the need for 5 other players that would keep you from using mercs. It is the zone itself that does that; even if it was a static zone it would not let you because it is flagged as a raid zone.

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