Heroes Are Forged - The Hero's Forge Mission Discussion

I just wanted to say: That's impressive and I enjoyed watching that performance.

Very impressive! Would you mind sending me a log of your next fight in this event? I'd like to use it to learn how to improve!

I'd argue its aimed at level 125 players with a mix of group gear from LS and NoS. I got my first win before 125 in NoS group gear.

It's interesting they would tune it that way, when it's a such strong leveling reward.

As far as debating the difficulty of the event, if it's for leveling purposes then it should be easy and if it's for phat loot/cool achievements then difficult and painful.

Do you think the missions are all that much harder or different from past missions?

There are several examples of missions that where really rough until you got the hang of the scripts and what was expected of you. Once you did that, the event got a lot easier to do.

For example " mean streets " . The first few runs were a real cluster muck of WTF is going on here, but , at some point you learn the tricks and its pretty easy.

SV with the cures.

VT with the golems, silence, lag ... (shiver)

There is a long history of having to gear / level up before doing the hardest missions.

I would argue, because missions are used to facilitate the leveling experience that it means they should be easy. Gear and AA level requirements make it so that you have to effectively be 125 to enjoy new gear (except weapons this expansion) and spells. So what's the point of locking large amounts of experience behind missions, if they're tuned for max level?

Laurion's Album Part 2 should have the hard missions, as it would naturally be tuned for 125.

Honestly, that feels like a bug/exploit. I'm curious if it was that way in Beta and if anyone pointed it out.

Burning isn't an exploit. And I don't feel it should always not be possible. But in this case, it basically skips the phase. Hence why I think percentage mechanics (with a timed port mixed in, but not as nuts as it is now) would fit the Lich better.

I think the best events have multiple angles of approach, but that isn't always possible especially with their time constraints.

Well what I meant was the fact that you can attack before it goes active...that's the part that feels like a bug.

I'd be surprised if it isn't intentional. Most do not have the DPS to totally kill them during the window.

Another thing can do on the Kite away emote is if you have a Bard the Bard can just group DA and explode the kite emotes then continue on the event

Just did this, it worked really well!!

I think we need to change the conversation.
No one cares if some raid geared people can burn through this. Its a group mission, who cares people if people in bis raid gear can blow through it. Thats like feeling good because you can drive faster than someone can run.

The problem is this mission for group geared players (all group geared, not being carried by a few raiders). Much less a non-optimal composition. Lets say a melee heavy group? One without pets to bypass problems? What about people in group gear that need healer mercs and dont have 2 priests in the group?

Its a group mission, therefore it needs to be doable a party ONLY in group gear, one that doesn't have an optimal composition. How about a party with zero pets and only melee dps (and no slot 8 gear). Lets see them "burn it down" when they are snared and cannot melee, and there aren't mage pets to send out.

Lets also not forget that those 500k dds and dots are hitting WAY harder due to lack of raid gear, and that group players will only have far fewer hp too.
Then the mana drains. If the party cant burn things down fast enough, they cant afford the long slog. Healers will go oom cause they have half the mana of a raider, and the group may not have a bl/bard to keep them in mana.

A core problem with this thread is that people in BIS raid gear are going on about how its "not that bad".

I think the mission is tuned for a full group who is already 125 and has at least upgraded their weapons and most of their gear to T1.

Don't forget that all of the LS group weapons are better than last years T3 weapons. Melee DPS will see a huge bump when they get to 125.

Its a typical chicken and the egg issue. They put the "easy" path for gear upgrades on the missions, and those require gear to be able to do effectively.

I'd like to see them increase the frequency of the named spawns / drop rates and add more incentives for replaying the merc / partisan quest lines. Specifically group gear currency and increased real XP rewards.

That doesn't even make sense. Gear with the expansion to do the expansion? That kind of design doesn't work. And this missions's problems are design/scripting problems. I think my suggestions a few posts back would fix it, not just farming current content gear.

It's pretty clear to me the issues are mostly unrefined design. Like in what universe is the lich behavior not a total broken mess for a group mission? Or the echoes targeting the tank?

My groups don't have a problem beating this but we're in raid gear.

Then that's an idictment on the god-awful design if you have to give players a head start on killing things.

If this were a non-level increase expansion, your argument might be valid.

But it's a leveling expansion, and you're supposed to use the missions and achievements to level your toons. If the mission is specifically designed for max level/max gear, then once again, that's really, really awaful design and an indication that the devs are utterly and completely out of touch with the game and the players.

I don't think it's awful design I think it's "first draft raid tweaked into a mission and pushed out" design.

As designed, the slime to get through webs mechanic isn't practical. The lich phase is insanely punishing to melee and the porting around hilariously frequent. The emotes going out during the final boss fire too early, letting the tank be hit.

The lich was fixed in the raid. That change didn't make it to the group mission. The other two issues aren't issues for a raid, even if the webs clearly aren't ideally dealt with as originally envisioned.

Basically I don't think any of this was intentional. It just needs a couple tweaks.

The missions being T2 is an issue. As stated above, large chunks of exp are placed on completion of missions and quests. Level restriction 125 gear is on the chests. Bagging items until you can equipment isn't a great design strategy.

The T2 and T3 (TS) gear should have been recommended 125, required 121. That would be more group friendly.

The other issue is the lack of quantity of missions. Two missions and one of them will repeatedly wipe the individuals who would benefit from the gear UPGRADES on the chest. The other mission is more appropriately tuned for a group, Final Fugue.

My hope is that they do a tuning pass for the sake of the average player base, suggestions:

-Reduce the lich warp frequency to every 20%
-Fix to NPCs able to be damaged while not damaging PCs
-Add function {the object you get at the start of the mission can be used to click for the debuff to move through the webs}
-Mummy adds no longer spawn on a set timer, but on a % basis, every 20% as it warps
-Fix Melody of Pain corpse camping
-Change Melody of Pain targeting from 'Caster AE' to 'Single'

So, you want us to deal with 4-5 mummies while people are running away from Shalowain? Hard pass. Don't punish our group just because we can erase the lich.