Grinding IS a play style. Not everybody likes to quest.

I'd heard this so many times, and I just shake my head at it. Everquest was never truly a copy/paste linear quest game like it has become. The quests before the achievement system was put in place weren't ordered in a nice tidy fashion like we have now: Partisan, Mercenary, Hero. Quests were unique, time consuming, and certainly not laid out before your very eyes.

This game was always based on grinding with quests that actually felt like quests. "Quests" now are just modern yellow brick roads leading us to the end. This wasn't the case years ago. Quests were implemented to compliment the content of the grind, not the other way around. Quests now are the content with the grind being tied in. In the days of old, you stumbled upon a quest and tried to figure it out based on conversations, lore, items, etc, not have the quest highlighted in neon lights and pointing exactly where to go.

WoW paved the way for this gamestyle and frankly, I didn't like it in WoW. I wasn't fond of running to the question mark on the map, then running to the next place with a question mark. When I came back to EQ to find this new achievement system thing, I thought it was very tacky and cheap looking. It didn't have that quality feel like you had in older expansions and I still feel this way. Quests like PoWar are as close as it gets to older type quests and even then, people aren't lining up at the doors to get in that zone. Unfortunately, with the lack of resources, EQ will remain in this pseudo open-world, but truly linear gameplay.

The name of the game, to my interpretation, never meant that it was a game based around individual quests. I always figured the quest was the adventure you took with your character. All the places you went, the monsters you fought, the experiences you had. The game itself is one long quest. The quest to become better, to hone your skills, to meet new people, to adventure into new lands. I never one said to myself EverQuest is where you only run around doing individual quests.

I don't remember that at all. There were lots of quests albeit mostly a form of grinding. They weren't long and involved but you could do them over and over again. Most people leveled that way in the beginning. Getting enough money to buy vendor gear to replace your empty slots was a bonus. It was a long time before I had all my slots filled. You would even wear gear with no stats just to fill them LOL.

For years, the "It's called everQUEST" line was always used ironically because quests were terrible exp compared to just grinding. All the quests that DID give good exp were nerfed if they were anywhere close to or better than solo exp. Quests could have good item, faction, spells, keys, or flag rewards. But good exp was not something they could have.

Luckily at some point this quest window was added so you could have some clue what was going in quests if you lost your place in the walk through on zam.

Trust me, posts on this board do not alter my calm level. If they did, I'd be in jail most likely due to the exceedingly high level of ridiculousness.

You mentioned progression as one of the sticking points in your original post since it's quest based. TDS has progression-based zone locking. If you weren't talking about TDS, which expansion were you referring to? House of Thule?

My point was that there is little evidence that they are not accommodating both grind and quest-oriented playstyles. So, I didn't really see what the problem is... however, as one of my FAVORITE posters on the boards said, "I'm ignorant", so it's entirely possible I'm at a loss.

if I wanted to quest I would go play wow they actually have a better quest system where everyone gets updates for doing them not you having to do same quest for all 6 people in the group to progress.
grinding is more fun with friends sit back kill and enjoy ya self , grinding is also what made everquest so much fun and group oriented you grabbed a group bs while killing endlessly .

This is why the taskmasters were such a cool thing (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8438 is an example of one). Get a small objective to complete while grinding in a certain (always non-instanced) area. It boggles me why they aren't more popular -- no wait, I know why. It's because their rewards are so terrible it's not even worth the 30 seconds to go run to them and get a quest. Yet another good idea horribly executed by SOE/DBG.

Task system is rubbish. I hate it. I have always hated it. The funny thing is is that Wow makes tasks less boring and they are still boring. Bring back Quests real quests and leave the rest to grind.

The Spirit of Garzicor- Quest
Epic 1.0- Quest
Old Sol Ro temple items - Quests
Shawl 1.0 - Quest
Coldain Ring - Quest

Mercenary Hero Partisan - Tasks.
Tasks- Boring with no special feel other than monotony having to do the same crap you hated again to help friends catch up. If you are going to insist on keeping the lazy tasks system at least make only the group mission at the end mandatory. There is nothing I hate more than EQs dumb task system. Bring back dungeons - real dungeons like Seb Velks Karnors SolA/B and Guk or real hell holes like Necropolis. Implement some real quests that need to be solved by the community gradually. Make questing something to go out of your way for something special.

I loved old quests when I wanted to do them and I absolutely loved getting neck deep into a dungeon with a party and fighting to a nice camp. The main thing is that when I was not questing I was fighting mobs with a party. Fighting mobs with your friends/acquaintances is what EQ. Hail this this this this kill 4 of this pick up 10 of these hail this hail this hail this blabla is wow. Sort things out Daybreak and bring back Everquest and shoot the lame horse that is Evercraft!

They are putting questing before grinding. TDS is a perfect example. You have to do several zones of progression quests before you get access to decent grinding content. Dino island is the first zone that could be considered decent for grinding. I'd actually say it doesn't really get good until Dredge. Katta is under populated, small and horrible exp. TT is horrible exp. Brother Island is sort of ok exp, but too small for more than 2-3 groups (one group with a bard can hold down all the named and thus make any groups wanting named + exp out of luck). Caverns is small and has quest mobs all over the place making grinding unproductive (the area with all the brothers could be decent, but the brothers spawn fast and give nearly no exp, yet break up all the mobs you could pull from). Degmar has some decent spots for grinding, but I never got decent exp there. Maybe it's better now. HA instanced zones are too risk free and boring, so I won't comment on those.

Had one of the unlocked zones been large and had a good population of mobs that give good exp per hour, I'd think differently. Regardless, it really does seem like they're putting most of their effort at creating tasks versus fun, interesting zones. It's not just about grinding out exp and loot. It's also about the play and feel of the zones you're doing it in. That takes just as much effort (if not more) as creating merc tasks.

if only those gave proper exp

In TDS, they do.

So, you're sticking to the idea that those that want to purely grind shouldn't have to make any type of sacrifice to be able to do so for the long term? People who only want to quest are forced to grind when the level cap is increased. Why can't the other side of the coin take the small amount of time to do quests to unlock Thuli or beyond? It seriously takes less than a week of casual play to fully flag for Arx. If you take a weekend, you'll be done... that weekend. Sure, give content for people who just like to grind... but this argument is borderline on asking for the silver spoon. And again, people who just want to grind without progression have many options to do so. No, it won't be the best but what do you expect for putting forth no effort in regards to progression?

Quests were and should continue (but aren't) to be more than just exp. Quests in the older days were actually fun and had rewards outside of exp. Many times, the best gear was hidden behind quests waiting to be discovered. Now, everything is all handholding. Exp in this game is easy than finding water in an ocean now. The fact that quests are solely based around exp is a joke.

And lets be serious. The achievement window is tacky, ugly and makes this game look like nothing more than some lame phone game. The task window is alright, but people are way too reliant on it now. You need no brain power to do anything in this game with it. I loved how PoWar didn't use it. Was 1000x more enjoyable not looking at a window to guide me.

And everQUEST was used in the same fashion as the person I quoted. A sad attempt of sarcasm, trying to bring up the literal definition of quest, which isn't correct for the name of this game. Quest has so many more means when talking about the name of this game.

We've come a long way from:

Complete your epic 1.5 and get 5aa's

to

Kill these 5 mobs and get 100aa. Repeat in 20 hours.

I've completed progression on 8 different characters, thank you. I've also helped numerous people do it. Did I enjoy it? For the most part, NO. Most of the tasks were not things I enjoy doing. For those that do enjoy those types of things, I'm happy for you.

What I would prefer is earning my way to the harder zones by doing progressively harder content and improving my character to handle the next zone. I want a challenge, not some hand-held, go fetch some item check list. That's not my preferred play style. I would have liked to have seen T1 zones be the difficulty of Dredge and Arx and the T3 zones be even harder.

As for putting forth no effort towards progression... Honestly, the only real effort required is staying awake. Questing in the modern game really is having things handed to you on a silver platter. That's what makes it so mundane.

I LOVE grinding, have always loved it and think it's a great way to meet people and enjoy the "social" aspect of this game.

The last time I came back to the game (one of many times) they had really implemented one of those "repeatable" quest type things, which to be honest was really "in line" with grinding. It was really fun for lower level characters in a group with people above their level to get some awesome XP. The quest givers were close to a lot of the spots where you had to kill so it made sense to get the quests to add to your XP.

As far as meaningful quest lines I would argue that finishing your kill quests for expansions and getting nice aug's is basically the "epic" of each expansion now. They are decent for the most part and good for people who are task oriented...I am NOT one of those people, I wish I was but I'm not. I'm the poster child for ADD and it SUCKS. My bag's inventory looks like a homeless mans suitcase.

I think the game has been doing a decent job at trying to be many things to many people. If you want quests then you have quests and they provide a decent amount of xp. If you like instanced zones then they also have those for you (I can't stand them and think they blow =(). And if you like open zones with namers you also have that. I love working my way into a fun "camp" and killing namers with friends and trying to challenge ourselves with tough pulls and stuff.

The MMO genre really grabbed ahold of me (in a non-sexual way) because of the social aspect and the level of teamwork often involved. I still think that it's out there to experience.

Oh the irony. So much hate for the repetitive task system while all the love for sitting around killing the same mobs endlessly. Don't complain that tasks are repetitive then defend grinding it makes no sense.

I think it's mainly which type of repetitive task system you like best. EQ offers an option for each.

Other then the tasks to open up new zones I totally ignore the hunter/whatever system, if I get an achievement it is totally by accident...

Do I have fun? Well I would not be here if I was not having fun playing EQ right?

Do I play the game as intended by the devs? .. Nope! not at all

Which was why it really bothered me when that dev. made that post announcing the exp cuts in the older zones because in their eyes doing stuff there was not Fun and should not be rewarding, but the new theme park they just opened was the definition of Fun!..... and we all should immediately rush over and only play in their new Fun park! .. or else!!.

The only real problem I have with the quest system in EQ is that, in a game which promotes grouping so much, it is complete trash when doing the quests in a group.

WoW did group quests right.. One guy loots item? Everyone got credit; move on with your lives.

In EQ, the quintessential "grouping required" game.. One guy loots item? OK, now stand around 15 minutes for mob to respawn and kill it again. Repeat this process 4 more times.

Going through Bloody Kithicor with my friends was especially painful regarding all the ground spawns you have to pick up for quests. I can't fathom how much those quests must have blown when that content was new and heavy populated...

The ONLY thing WoW has quest wise that I'd like to see EQ implement is the share button. We already have the ability for one person to loot and everyone with it to update. (We see that in TDS a lot.) What we need is the ability for us to share the quest with the people in the group.

^^^ This says it all.

Yes you "CAN" grind in Everquest. The problem is that grinding takes a distant back seat to questing in current Everquest expansions.

You ***HAVE** to quest to get to the good grind spots. It's forced game play style, and that doesn't fit the "EverQuest is Free to Play. Your Way.™" logo that SoE/DBG has been stating. If it's "YOUR WAY", then we should be able to play the game style we prefer with out being locked out from 90% of the content by not playing a particular game play style.

Questing is NOT my way. Grinding IS my way.

And, before you saying anything about Free to Play. I pay for all three of my accounts every month. I just used the logo that SoE/DBG uses above, and it includes those words.