Personally I'd call it Tier 2 myself. (Just because everything in beta and the Devs will be calling it Tier 2 - down the road for consistency with it's location as well.)
Raid emotes would say otherwise I think Lot's of raiders think they are elite (based on their gear) when they're actually horrible players. Yes, many guilds wind up carrying weak players, often because there isn't a huge pool to pick from due to population decline. But who knows... maybe that's not the norm and there are more perfect guilds running around that it seems!
Incorrect. Its more about some raiders jealously guarding the advantage they have over group players and the fact that SOE tunes some group content towards raiders which makes it too hard group regular groupers.
This would be a great idea and would help prevent the overtuning of group content just to give raiders a bit of a challenge. Won't happen but nice idea.
From my experience this is 100% accurate. I'd say, at least from what I've seen, the ratio of bad players to good is somewhat higher in the group game, but raiders definitely aren't perfect (and there are a lot of bad ones). I'd probably get in trouble if I posted parses, but it isn't uncommon for one person from Class X to be doing 2-3 times the DPS of another member of Class X. There are most definitely those who under perform significantly, and they don't win whether they have raid gear or not. Illa (sp? ) wrote a post about how obtuse EQ is in the end game, and I thought it was completely on point. Raider or no raider, many people only realize 10-20% of their ability. As I said before, raid gear will provide some cushion, but player ability is paramount. Skilled raiders would still succeed in group gear.
How about group gear become something that takes eight months to get a complete set of? At that point I'd accept it being equal to last years top end raid gear. Two weeks of content that takes less than one quarter the organization to beat doesn't even compare... The percentage gap has always been there. If I could tank City of Bronze at 92 in Lucid, with T2 HoT non-vis (Again, group gear) I'm not understanding the complaint. I keep reading garbage like "raiders are jealously guarding their gear." We aren't guarding it from anyone - If you want it, earn it like we do. Raid... Or play on Firiona Vie and just buy it.
I think you are all missing the point that there has been roughly a 25% difference between the top level group and top level raid gear for a very long time, give or take a couple percent. Even though you see different numbers, the relative difference hasn't changed. Its been this way for a very long time. So, why exactly the uproar here? We're not seeing anything different than we've seen for the last half decade.
I have a hard time see'ing how group content in group gear is somehow harder than raid content in raid gear... all of today's raid ( CoTf and RoF) are pretty much watered-down versions of the raids... when I look at missions like burn-out in Argin-Hiz, where a single wizard can burn both bosses while the tank use deflection... sure, you got elite players carrying bad in raid... pretty sure that also happen in group game ( aka, people unable to out-dps a wizard merc, or cleric merc outperforming your healer... group ain't fixing that)
If the gap between group and raid gear is so large, why have I seen group geared toons topping raid parses in CoTF? The difference in gear is small enough that skill is still the dominant factor when comparing the two.
TDS T1 Raid BP: 512 AC and 4406 HP TDS T3 Group BP: 384 AC and 3305 HP The TDS T3 group gear is about equivalent to RoF T2/T3 raid gear (two expansions ago) Lets look at VoA gear. VoA T1 Raid BP: 310 AC and 2200 HP VoA T4 Group BP: 267 AC and 2110 HP There is a huge problem with these numbers, First off, group gear per Tier has been 75% ish of raid gear of the same tier for a while, meaning: T1 Raid BP : 512 AC, 4406 HPS, then a (512 * .75) and (4406 * .75) to get, T1 Group BP: 384 AC, 3305 HPS (Should be) NOT the T3 version Just as Makavien noted, T2 Raid vs T2 Group Cotf Tier 2 Raid Warrior Bp AC 463 HP 3963 Alla Link - http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=117557 Cotf Tier 2 Group Warrior BP AC 348 (463 * .75) HP 2973 (3963 * .75) Alla Link - http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=117692 Was the first example supposed to be? TDS T1 Raid BP: 512 AC and 4406 HP TDS T1 Group BP: 384 AC and 3305 HP Because that would make better sense. If not SOE is again causing the same problems that led to the "75% rule" in the first place and needs to go back into their Lessons Learned Binder and figure it the *&^! out, before we are back where we started!
% differences is immaterial. Can the content be done comfortably in the gear provided? Thats a question that can't even be answered yet.
For casters, it's all about the foci. I'd gladly give up everything else on the item for a slight improvement in focus effect.
Please remember there is no TDS tier 1 raid gear, so you cannot use that at all in any comparison or discussion.
The content where you get most of your rewards should be challenging. As a raider the vast majority of my rewards are from raid content. Raid content is challenging in raid gear. Group content, which provides upgrades for non-raiders, is challenging for group geared players. Standard Issue group gear and the content that drops it is tuned for non-raiders. You claim some content is too hard for the group geared? (Hi RSS. Nice to see you again.) Petition/feedback - the offending events (not the quality of group; gear) may need adjustment. Gribble, group currency, ... The leveling up and AA mountain myth some players posted about isn't exceeded, but its close, by the it's hard to gear up a non-raider myth. Comparing raid BP and non-raid BP is intentionally misleading a. People can get access to group content upgrades sooner than the same tier raid upgrades. While it might not be the case now I've seen a 2 person group geared box team finish expansions and be fully group end tier geared in three months. With 60 players to gear up and the drop rates that do not happen even for raid Top Ten guilds. Besides, 4 Warriors per guild times 10 guilds (that's 40 Warriors) does not lay waste to Risk vs. Reward where raiders are rewarded less group content. b. Standard Issue is often not the best non-raid gear available. see PoWar, Hardcore Heritage, LoN rewards, achievement items, tradable ultra rares, ... My raid ring I was wearing at the time was not a whole lot better than the group PoWar rings or Crested Mistmore Ring when they first became available. c. It's raid item plus aug vs group item plus aug. You get a far different gap percentage if you put augs on that group (especially the PoWar one) and (for the vast majority of raiders the previous tier) raid neck. Raid items should be better than non-raid items. Even non Top Ten guild raiders shouldn't ask the question when looking at new expansion group drops "Why did I even bother to raid?"
I know a lot of raiders, some former members of your guild included, that couldn't group their way out of a paper bag though. In fact, the former leadership and I had an agreement a few expansions ago to backflag people in exchange for gear.
And I've joined pick up groups with non-raiders that only did ~5% of their class's DPS. The best raiders are almost guaranteed to be more skilled than the best non-raiders, and the worst raiders are a lot better than the worst groupers, though nowhere near as good as the best groupers. Average skill level of raiders is higher than average skill level of groupers.
I made a lot of pp selling Lost Temple of Cazic Thule, Greater State of Unrest, etc. drops to non-raiders. This content was incredibly easy. If you can't level, AA, and gear up your main without rocket powered progression skates that's beyond being challenged by a paper bag. I seriously doubt if any current content raid mains "needed" to have their main improved by Heroic Character or AA auto gain. We generally are max level, max AA, have a lovely set of augs, nice clickies, etc. and don't need help climbing no AA "mountain", level "barrier", or gear up impossibility. (<- none of which was "too hard" for my group geared at the time non-boxed alt). There are exceptions. But guilds will make every effort to recruit outstanding non-raiders (gear is the easiest part of getting someone raid worthy - you can get by with previous tier gear and that's often in farm mode). Those not in a raid guild don't like taking orders, don't like raiding, don't have the time, etc. These shortcomings don't make them bad players, just bad raiders.
