Could this be what's going on? As someone who has greatly enjoyed playing a necro off and on since the pop era I have been greatly anticipating (as I'm sure most necros and SKs have been) our revamps. I know necros are especially complicated in this and is is virtually impossible that we come out fairly even in dps/ and damage / mana efficiency in all facets of the game (solo, molo / small group, group, and raid). I'm well aware that it may not come out in my favor at all as I'm primarily a solo and small group player but I have been very anxious to finally see where it's going to end up. Now I've just been looking through most of the posts concerning the dot revamps going back to around February and I haven't seen any several posts about it at all other than I think maybe one post saying they didn't wanna talk about it in I think the necro BP discussion lol. So I have to wonder: could they be hoping the issue will quietly die and simply be planning to never deal with the headache? I mean they started the first dot revamps what? 18 months or more ago? I would love to have some confirmation that they are in fact still working on them. An actual discussion about heir unresolved issues in which people could spitball solutions would be even more great but probably far too much to hope for. Even knowing exactly what their goals are with it would be great though.
I hope you're right. Though if they end up losing efficiency (the opposite I believe of what they originally stated iirc) in terms of dmg / mana I might just wish they HAD forgotten about it but still it would be nice to have closure lol
I think it was a good idea that went really bad. Good necros are still solid dps even without the dot revamp. Take shammys and druids that you were not seeing parsing even in the top 2/3rds of a raid previously, and now good ones can top the parse on many events after the revamp. Now apply that same strategy to necros and they would be unbelievably over powered and easily out dps all other classes. I think they are trying to figure out how to nerf necros down and then revamp them so that they avoid exactly that. Its obviously very complicated.
I don't think any necro expects the kind of dmg boost to their dots that shamen got. I think what most expect is that they take the dmg that necros are currently doing with 20 or however many dots they are currently having to use to dps competitively and put it into 10-12 dots while only allowing to cast those 10-12 dots together. Ideally with about the same mana usage per dmg too. Now I realize this has some problem like a quicker ramp up time and such but it not like they cant figure out how to revamp us without doubling our dmg.
I hope it works out like that too. Would be neat to have down time to be able to cast the spells that actually trigger RB now!
Yea increased down time I have considered but I don't think it would add to awefully much dps and depending on mana levels it might actually be inefficient if it causes you to be unable to refresh a dot later. Could actually be an interesting decision to nuke for a little more (inefficient) dmg now or hold the mana to keep dots running longer.
no clue if the one who doing the dots revamps are the same as who doing mass nerfs , if it's the case , I guess that's why revamp if not happening / slow to be done.
Nah, different devs, the one doing revamps is the Spell dev, most/all of those nerfs/fixes were AA (with 1 specific set of weapons, being fix/nerfed by item dev) Spell Dev is not even done with RoS stuff either with like 1 week till launch AA aren't really tuned either just initial versions, heh So either a mad dash to the finish, or they will just maybe tune things better post launch
If there is not a problem and the plan is going through then I think it's great, but if people see that there is a problem with whatever is behind the scenes, and they can't find a good solution, I bet there are a lot of creative fixes. I think a good solution would be to have dots, and then short term buffs that focus those specific dots to a degree. That way you can have very powerful dots but not require 24'ish buff slots, and also not have the avoidance of a ramp up. In addition, in group content you could cast the focus first (maybe it could have X counters) and then when you dot a mob the dot has a more burst sort of feel to it. That's probably my favorite solution out of what I have seen, but there are some other options as well. You could have dots that when they are cast, if a different dot is on the mob, it absorbs that dot and becomes something more powerful. This would be interesting because you'd have to figure out the right order to do things to cause the maximum dps for a given mob on it's ramp up time. It would probably feel a lot like "stacking cups". That would be interesting in regard to several necromancers on a mob. Maybe the more a dot is cast after another dot is on a mob, instead of making a new debuff slot, the more if buffs up other dots that are on that mob? You could have dots that are reverse splurts, and start out as being very powerful, but wither away. Then a good necro would want to recast them very often even though they have not worn out. I would use this sparingly if it were used though. A popular sentiment is that you could raise the amount of buff/debuff slots on a mob, and I know you guys know this one, but that one bears repeating, especially for raid mobs. You don't have to lower the ceiling on the difficulty to this class to solve these issues. I'm surprised there haven't been more community suggested ideas on this area, or maybe I've just missed them.
I don't think I would want them to increase our up front burst much if at all. You never get something for nothing. Necros have traditionally excelled at two things; soloing and long drawn out raid fights (and twitching clerics haha). Grouping we have generally been more of a utility / puller class and just not group friendly in general. That's the price of our strengths and versatility. If we start buffing out weak spots I can almost guarantee a nerf to out already dwindling strengths.
Then what would your solution be here? If they make necros have super dots as the other classes have that's going to severely decrease the ramp up time, and increase burst. What would you suggest Vanlaven? Should they be more like splurt? Even if that's the case, it changes the dynamic. Now you still get more damage per spell in a big way, which is going to make soloing on a necro insane. Realistically, any change to the class is going to change the class. Is the only possible solution just to not touch the current dots at all and then have more debuff slots?
Either a splurt type treatment of several dots or more of our dots having stingers or "doom" effects to keep our dmg back loaded are the first solutions to come to my mind. Also sry if I offended or anything, I'm just kinda weary with them being so liberal with the nerf bat lately.
I just figured Aristo (or whomever) ran out of time on getting the necro revamps correct before they needed to create 3,000 or whatever spells for RoS and had to put it down for now. It's something that needs to be done very carefully and can't just be a copy of what they did for Shamans without really upsetting the class.
Its not just gonna be creating new spells. They will need to rebalance all the necro AAs. With their current abilities, a necro can make a 3-5k dot crit for several hundred thousand. If they have dots that are 30k base, they'll be critting for several million per dot. So the devs will need to change the numbers on a TON of AA abilities necros already have (otherwise, 1 necro will be worth more than an entire dps group).
Fairly certain this isn't true. All they are intending to do from what I gather is take the dmg we do with 20-22 dots and put it into 10-12 dots. While this will cause the ticks to be much higher there will be fewer of them because we will be able to cast fewer dots. There is functionally no difference between 5 dots ticking for 200k and one dot ticking for a million. Just an awe factor maybe. I could be missing something but some one would have to lay it out specificly.
can't have a dot with to high a base damage or we become a burst class as well as a the long term dps class. its why the swift dots where nerfed for raids with those 3 dots added into the lineup we could burst at the same level as wizzy. and the burst classes went nuts on it. so why they want to take the dmg of 20ish dots and put it into 10ish dots they can't give each do to much base damage or we end up back in that area all over again. I see three ways they can do it. 1st. splurt line of spells. - the only issue with this is if you recast to soon you lose out on the bigger dps ticks at the end. 2nd wound lines of spells. - again if you recast to soon you lose the big dps ticks at the end. 3rd. keep the damage per ticks on the dot somewhat as they are now but give us a passive aa that adds x damage to the base damage of our dots(so the extra damage form the aa can crit and stuff). make it so the amount of extra damage is based on the number of dots a necro has going. Or that it don't kick in unless the necro has x number of dots going. this would deal with the ramp up time.
I understand the ramp up time issue and i addressed it with precisely the same two options you presented as 1 and 2. Your 3rd sounds interesting but I don't know of any similar mechanics currently in game and I don't see them coding an entire new mechanic for us given their incredibly thin resources. My point was more that as far as I know we don't get any exponential increases such that summing dots together would cause a net gain over the individual numbers being multiplied. (2x5) + (2x5) = 4x5. The twos represent two diff dot dmgs and the 5s representing something like our crit multiplier. As long as we don't have anything that acts exponentially on our base dmg we should be fine and I don't think we do.
Its more complex than you imagine. If in 5 casts you can have 5 dots each ticking for 3-5million and then you start nuking. Thats crazy compared to how long it takes a necro to ramp up (even if they can do 15million/tick. Can they?) There is also the consideration of uptime. In 10-15 seconds you can have all your dots on, and its easy to keep them up. That turns necros into the best burst class, plus the best long term fight class. Also the math is different. If necros have 8-12 dots to cast that each do 10-30k base, they will FAR outdo the damage of using 15-20 current dots.
