So; I'm curious as to the intended class role of enchanters. With the current state of Runes an enchanter can tank an unlimited number of stunable mobs. Or; any given other mob in limited numbers. They can do this without suffering any push, without being concerned with positioning, without having any aggro concerns, without waiting on any cool-downs, and without receiving any heals. When the unity rune breaks, it procs an unlimited PBAE stun. This means that in some areas an enchanter can tank 100, 200, or more current content mobs. This is currently in use as method to power-level. The amount of aggro generated by runes far outweighs the amount that any "tank class" can generate. Thusly allowing zerker's, wizards, etc. to damage an unlimited number of mobs with zero risk of pulling any aggro off a tanking enchanter. Given that most other classes have had their ability to swarm unlimited mobs nerfed out of existence, I can't imagine this is as intended. And; I have a hard time imagining that enchanter's were suppose to be able to tank better than tanks without any of the concerns that tanks have. So I ask in earnest: What is the intended class role of enchanters in current content?
So you watched an enchanter and a wizard crush HA's and your calling for a Nerfs, under the guise of a question. Whats even funnier is chanters have been able to do this for along time, and your acting like its just now a "thing"
"In some"... okay that qualifier right there makes this statement ridiculous but... Please give me a single example of a HUNDRED mobs in current content being rune tanked. I don't think you could even find a spot to round up that many mobs before the whole zone rubberbands. If you're going to make a legitimate point it helps if you don't exaggerate. So you're saying that with multiple classes a group can kill a lot of mobs. Okay. This is not comparable to swarming as that was done by a single individual without outside help. You've essentially described a group in this example. Also, any tank or DPS caster that can't out aggro an Enchanter is doing it wrong. Perhaps if the enchanter turned off Subtlety. The situation you are describing is extremely difficult to pull off. First, it requires every single mob to be stunnable (rare but possible). Next, it requires robot-like timing: Stun rune has a 12 second recast, Stun has a 12 second recast, each lasts 6 seconds; even if you include Color Shock you can't run that 100% of the time. Then, if you get a single resist you CAN easily be pushed or interrupted. As far as anyone knows, you're making it up. Give an actual example where your scenario is happening. No one accepts a parse without numbers; this isn't any different. Edit: Apparently saying someone is trolling is trolling based on forum guidelines so I had to edit my post
The intended role of enchanters is 'crowd control.' I think secondary is puller. The easiest way for us to be able to crowd control is to live through getting hit long enough to cast mez. We are in a very good spot at the moment (livability wise) but the OP is an exaggeration to the extreme. The problem becomes if you nerf us to where we can't live through 8 mobs beating on us.. then CC becomes a death sentence in all but the weakest of zones. BTW using the older HA's that most enchanters are geared way past as an example is kind of like stacking the deck. I've seen sks and paladins pull the entire instance and tank them until the wizards AE them down. If they can tank the entire instance, I should be able to pull as many as I can CC without any hazard either. If you can't pull aggro off me, then my suggestion is one I've heard on these boards many times: learn to play your class. My friend (a paladin) can pull them off me easily and hold them off. (even if I have subtlety negated.) P.S. Maybe it's time for a cloth based tank! I'm in
PBAE stunning mobs is called Crowd Control, not tanking. Enchanter was always meant to be the best CC class in EQ. If the mobs are stunnable then Enchanter is meant to be able to stun them, by design. PBAE stunning mobs can be used to power level? Show me an Enchanter swarming alone. You are ignoring the fact that an Enchanter doing PBAE stuns is doing zero DPS. Somebody else needs to actually kill those mobs. Empowering other classes is the other primary role of Enchanter in EQ. Aggro from runes is a big issue, yes. Especially in TDS. Runes are considered the same as heals and they produce the amount of aggro equal to their size. The problem is that, unlike heals, runes are not focusable. Healers get aggro for only a fraction of the actual healing they do. Enchanters get full amount of aggro for their runes. And in TDS it finally overtook even the top tank aggro. Before TDS a good tank would generate more aggro than an enchanter spamming runes on him. Now it's no longer the case except for brief periods when certain discs are running. The devs gave some runes (e.g. threshold ones) a hate override. But for some reason left the rest with full aggro. That needs to be fixed.
No need to punish the bulk of a class for what a handful have the balls to try and fewer even succeed at.
Especially when that class is already one of the least popular in game. When there are ENC boxes everywhere, like it was with mages before the beam nerf, then maybe it's time to worry. But stun locking a lot of non-trivial mobs takes more skill than beam kiting ever did. And it's pointless to do solo. Highly skilled enchanters are highly desirable in groups, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
The 'intended' role of enchanters in current content varies on how you define current content. Typicaly though, the enchanter's 'intended' role is that of support with the flexability to be DPS and CC when required. I personally classify CC as a sub-role because there exists so any ways to single pull, and mob spacing & AAs almost negates any need for CC. The problem that arises from this is that people playing enchanters typically are 'out-side the box thinkers' which, with the variable nature of the enchanter class, allows the stringing together abilitys and spells to generate often unintended outcomes. IE mental contortion & a host of other abilitys/Spells to make that meat grinder of a boss into a kitten. These outcomes, as Renaii mentioned, are based upon the skill & balls of the player. All classes have this ability, its just more evident with enchanters because there are so few still playing.
Not to be a stick in the mud: runes are double absorb value as hate a heal is 1 to 1 ratio of hate to hp healed
Yes. Let's start another smear campaign screaming for nerfs and totally distract from the disaster that is TeDiouS and the rapidly dwindling player base. Good call.
Thanks for the correction. Either way, rune aggro finally 'jumped the shark' in TDS. When an add that's being tanked by a Shadowknight and dps'd by a Wizard decides to summon an Enchanter for spamming runes on the boss tank nearby - you know it's out of whack.
post a vid! i really want to see this. only because it sounds awesome and fun. you know, things a game should have ~
The thing about rune spamming tanks... your paladins or chanters should be dragging the chanter spamming. Or they can use umbral rune until situation normalizes
Sounds like the old days of tashicide. Except the rune actually lets you live more than the .2 second that I used to casting tash in Sleepers.
Umm... both. Auspice is 24 sec recast. Spam Lucem while Auspice is down. Can make a big difference in tank survivability while they are still wearing the gear from 5 levels ago. Auspice has a hate override -500, so it's fine. But we had to tell the enchanters to go back to the RoF rune instead of Lucem because of the sheer amount of aggro they generate. Knights were yelling 'stop blurring my mobs!' and couldn't believe that the enc simply outaggroed them without even touching their mobs.
I was talking umbral rune not auspice. The deal group is insignificant in full tank mode and it only procs once at most.
I'm imagining the chanter had 'negation of subtlety' running as well. Runes are supposed to be dangerous. Not something that we can spam without getting aggro. That's also why we have tools to get rid of that aggro too.
I don't play an enchanter, never have but I can say this... I'm GLAD that enchanters can do this, it sounds like a fun and risky way of playing for them. To me EQ is a PVE game (Zek people may dissagree, I don't care, DAOC is better for PVP), and in being so should have many different ways of playing outside of diminishing acceptable ways of play that may or may not be exactly balanced. Conventional ways of killing mobs in EQ always was and should remain more than just tank and heals. Root rotting, aggro kiting, fear kiting, charming, reverse charming, pet tanking and any other way people can invent to kill mobs should be embraced as it's the diversity of such play styles that sets this game above so many others.
