Dodge mods vs. hp/ac for tanks in the level 70 era

So I made a google spreadsheet to math it, and in that era it looks like the 10% dodge aug will best case increase your chance to dodge by 1%. Dodge SPA and Heroic Agility have a much greater effect on your chance to dodge than the aug.

I guessed on hAgi being about 35 in that era. I assumed a dodge skill of 305, and a dodge SPA of 37 (imp dodge 3 and talisman of sense), and no mob strike through. Without the aug, you're looking at a 12% chance to dodge. With the aug, that would jump up to 13%.

If you don't have either imp dodge or talisman buff, the aug has literally no effect on your chance to dodge, and you should expect a 10% dodge chance.

Feel free to take a look: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Csec_Xlo2Xb8fqbKCNjMT--mW7_y6tCw7UX_sW4AQuU/edit?usp=sharing

FWIW shaman talisman buff doesn't increase dodge chance, it increases the mobs chance to miss which is actually better since it happens after all other defensives have failed.

Good catch, it's evasion, not dodge per the SPA list Prathun posted here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/enumerated-spa-list.206288/

AC>all. If you can get gear with a Dodge mod added on it, go for it.

Not a parse but purely anecdotal from the perspective of a cleric... it is highly noticeable which tanks focus on ac and which do not. I know for a fact a couple of out tanks who have pretty much maxxed out the ac augs they can use and target high ac gear can basically tank as well without disciplines as those who have a lower ac under discs (and yes they are all raid geared). I would rather heal a high ac tank over any other.

That's a good observation. If you look at how mob damage works, you see a few equations pop up pretty frequently:

min hit = DB + DI
max hit = DB + DI * 20 (19 for warriors)

There are 20 values a mob can hit for, ranging from

"DB + DI * 1"
to
"DB + DI *20"

Defensive alters this equation by reducing the DI*n portion, so the range goes from
DB + (DI * 1/2)
to
DB + (DI * 20/2)

Higher AC shifts the 1-20 multiplier lower.

A well AC'd warrior gets hit for a modal DI of 3 iirc. So while they are not defensive they get hit for
DB + 3*DI
and while defensive they get hit for
DB + 3*DI/2

Looking at old data (pre-motm) from AoW (I don't have parses, I just googled one):
DB = 254, DI = 45

Well AC'd warrior gets hit for 254 + 135 = 389 non defensive and 254 + 135 / 2 = 321 defensive.

However, a poorly AC'd warrior gets hit for a higher modal DI, let's say 10.

254 + 450 = 704 non defensive and 254 + 450/2 = 479 defensive.

For a well geared warrior, in this case, defensive has a lesser effect, as they are already taking less DI damage than the poorly geared warrior, which leads to more stable tanking. Minimizing your DI multiplier through AC as a tank is huge for tanking mobs that have a high DI value, which is most raid mobs. This is in line with Grebyr's observation that high AC tanks are easier to heal.

I'm not trying to argue against AC. I know it's important. But for the warriors that are geared well enough to meet that first case, they can start to focus on things besides AC, like DPS, avoidance, etc.

Thanks for the opinion. Ill stick to what was posted(no longer available due to site going down) on steel warrior website after very extensive testing. AC>all at all times.

There's a finite value to 1 AC though. Would you take 1 ac over 25 heroic stamina? or over 1000hps? Because that's just dumb.

I'm not going to argue against the steel warrior conclusions--they were correct at the time, and I think they still are, and I gear for max AC as a tank. However, there have been many changes to mitigation since steel warrior was taken down that may well change things. Something that was tested, even extensively, five or ten or fifteen years ago isn't still valid today with all the mechanic changes that have taken place.

Is there ever a situation where you are given choices like that?

That was obviously exaggerated but yes those types of things do come up. Do you want a couple more AC or a better melee focus or better heroics? If you go through tank BiS lists in a lot of expansions it isn't literally the highest AC in every slot, although of course it is predominately that. Heroics before softcaps are going to be a lot more important than a small amount of AC and melee focuses are huge.

True. If you had to sacrifice some ac to get hsta capped, or hdex, that's probably worth the tradeoff. Fortunately the most important ones are not too difficult to cap, once heroics come in. I don't recall ever being in a situation this time through where I had to swap out a 20 or 25 ac aug for a heroic stat aug. But picking a piece of gear with a few less AC but more heroics, yeah, sometimes.

Sorry was sick in RL or would answered sooner. My choice of HPs or another value over AC depends on the value of AC I will get each time. Augment wise I look for multiple value items like we are in DoDH right now so been grabbing the 25ac/25hp augments. My lowest hp augment I currently have is 110.

25/25s are good in that era. Not worth giving up basically any real amount of AC for 110hp though. Even a 10 or 15 AC aug is better than that.