Dev reply please - Stonks

You just flunked chemistry. Anhydrous iron oxide is NOT rust, and does not look like hydrated iron oxide, the household rust we're talking about. The process that creates rust will also result in trace amounts of other iron oxide forms.

Water is not simply a catalyst. For atoms of iron (Fe) and oxygen (O) to bond, there has to be a path for some of their electrons to pass back and forth between the two. This doesn't happen naturally because the position of the electron orbits don't fit together, because the two atoms can never be in sufficiently close proximity. (Iron isn't an alkali metal and oxygen is actually a diatom.) Iron reactions at STP all involve some level of oxidation, where the iron atom transfers one or more of its electrons to an intervening atom or molecule. Don't be fooled by the use of the chemical term "oxidation" here: The iron atom in ionic form (can be either Fe+ (I), Fe2+ (II) or Fe3+(III)) can combine with anions such as chloride (Cl-), which makes a salt, and no oxygen is involved. Again, for iron and oxygen to bond, there has to be a conduit for the electron path present in the bonded atomic structure; a water molecule is the most common way to provide that function. Acetic acid (CH3COOH, aka vinegar) can perform the same function. The formation of hydrated iron oxide can be greatly accelerated by the addition of an acid or a salt; those do act as catalysts.

Ferric oxyhydroxide (usually written as "FeO(OH)") is a completely different substance, and has the structure of a salt. It is not hydrated. It exists in granular form. It is commonly used in water purification and the extraction of heavy metals from ground penetration, e.g. arsenic, lead, etc. Like many salts of iron, it is reddish in color, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with rust.

This thread really delivered, it started out stupid, but it's way better now. Not sarcasm.

Cryptocurrencies should have been a fad, but just like casinos, as soon as somebody gets something, everybody else assumes they can get it too. They will be left holding the bag, and then do it to somebody else, ad nauseum. The people running the exchanges will make all the money (or run off with it) while the rest of us (not me) screw each other in the quest for gains.

I really thought the thread was toast when Strawberry revealed his identity as the ghost of of Ron Paul. I know Ron Paul isn't dead, but he hasn't had a soul for years, so he can have a ghost. Luckily his metals tangent sent us spiraling off to where we can at least learn something interesting. Please continue.

Well, you certainly flunked reading comprehension; I didn't say it was rust, in fact I pretty clearly stated the exact opposite. It forms a mineral, actually, with (as I already said) properties considerably different than the rust you're used to seeing on metal.

Lol, what you're describing is the definition of catalysis: the water accelerates the reaction, without being consumed in the process.

And -- once again -- the oxidation of iron doesn't require water. There are countless (including many naturally-occuring) acidic compounds which will cause rapid oxidation of iron without water, and in dry air above around 200C or so, iron readily oxidizes. In fact, iron will even oxidize at room temperature in dry air or a CO atmosphere if the iron is formed into nanoscale particles; a great deal of current research is centered around this.

"her"

OK, so...

Cryptocurrency: Check
Chemistry/Metallurgy: Check

Now, what about GME?

You've gone too far in the other direction. Unlike casinos, cryptocurrencies have actual utility. However, at present that utility is severely limited for many reasons (some technical, some otherwise), and, if and when those reasons are ever addressed, governments will simply clamp down and shut such currencies down entirely. There's a reason after all that (nearly) every government in the world issues its own currency and bans to some degree any competitors.

Here's a high school science experiment for you. Put some iron filings in a jar. Add in a small amount, say a spoonful, of calcium chloride (CCL4). Seal the jar. Wait. Will the iron oxidize? Will rust form? NO.

The calcium chloride will take moisture (water) out of the air in the jar. Without that, rust cannot form.

Nanoscale science is something completely different and is not taught at undergraduate level in chemistry departments. Yes, there is all sorts of interesting work going on in that field, particularly with respect to manufacturing processes in space and die size reduction in semiconductor production. There is no relevance to how you or I protect ourselves from rust happening in everyday life.

Not sure if you are talking about real casinos or Mabbu casinos. Assuming real casinos, do you know how much the casino makes on all the money that goes through the doors? On average it's 5-6%. Not a counterpoint, I just thought folks might find it interesting.

Fine, Ghost of Ayn Rand then. Same crap, different genitals.

Casinos have utility also, they are a vacation destination, or a place to stay with nice amenities. They could exist without the gambling and have the same utility. Crypto currency is a solution in search of a problem, but more likely a way for the early adopters to get rich, since they can't just start a new country/government and issue their own currency to do it.

They have zero benefit over currency backed by a stable country. Modern banks allow for electronic transfers, 3rd parties allow for electronic currency transfers. The only thing crypto currencies gain you is the volatility of the stock market, without any financial reports or other indicators to use to judge that volatility. They are gambling, period.

I wouldn't even care, but it turns out that wasting perfectly good video cards and driving up their cost, while wasting ridiculous amounts of power is what they have to do to exist. So from that stand point, screw them all. If I had the ability I'd remove them all from existence in a heartbeat.

The blockchain was a cool idea which had potential, until it didn't. Did that end up getting used for anything else, or just more crypto currencies with progressively dumber names? I honestly don't know, but it still screws over the video card market, and silicon prices, and wastes power. So if it is actually used for something besides more gambling, then it would have to be a pretty good purpose to offset that.

Real casinos, just for reference, and that seems low, but I have no reason not to believe you. I mean not all casinos are successful either, and they probably did better in the old days when it was easier to hide profits. This year it seems to be the sports betting, which based on the commercials must be making them a ton of money. I mean they will give you up to $1000 back on your first bet, what could go wrong? How confident they must be that they will take your money over and over again on bets two and beyond to make that offer.

ROFL, cute. Calcium chloride is a salt, Cubbie, not an oxidizing agent.

Here's some better high school experiments for you:

Place some iron filings under dry air. Heat to 300C and watch the iron oxidize.
or, place the filings under dry carbon monoxide and heat. Watch the same thing happen.
or, place the filings in a (nonaqeous) solution of an oxidizer like sodium hypochlorite or potassium permanganate, and watch the iron oxidize at room temperature.

Lol, that's a rather obvious attempt to shift the goalposts. When did we begin talking about "protecting ourselves from rust"?

It's on the rise. Sports betting is generally a pretty small percentage of casino revenue. I don't have a number handy but I'd guess less than 10%.

I think that's more a function of competition than it is profitability.

You just contradicted yourself. If the gambling doesn't add utlitity, then, by definition, its utility is zero.

Distributed trust. You can argue how much benefit that actually is (personally I feel it's very little), but you cannot argue its existence.

Ah, the spectre of self-interest rears its ugly head. It also distorts your logic, since it should be apparent that, while mining often has a short-term detriment to video card prices, it's long-term effect is extraordinarily beneficial to those of you whose sole metric is getting l33t gaming equipment at the best possible price point.

Snowflake alert!

The criticism of rational self-interest is particularly ironic, coming from someone who in the very same post admits he'd forcibly shut down an entire industry, if it would get him a better price on a video card.

I was responding to you, and you said "Unlike casinos, cryptocurrencies have actual utility." If that isn't what you meant, that's not my problem. I do agree that gambling has no utility, but we're stuck with it because freedom lets people make their own mistakes for the most part. However, crypto currencies have no utility that isn't already provided by regular currencies. They are just a new player in the game so that new people can screw other people over, rather than the ones that already had the power.

Distributed something, certainly not trust. Exchanges can get hacked, the people running them can run off with the money, passwords can be lost permanently. It's gambling. The perception of trust is not trust, it is an illusion.

I won't deny the self interest, but it has no impact on my logic. There is no short-term detriment, it's been constant since this began. There was a short period, late in the 20X0 series life where things were mostly normal, rather than inflated. It's never been beneficial. The secondary market would be pulling the primary market prices down if what you propose was happening, it has not.

Once in a while somebody will come along and say "they don't even use video cards anymore, they use specialized equipment now." Which is quickly proven false when the 30X0 series comes out and Nvidia is caught privately selling to miners to keep it quiet.

The only thing that even came close to benefitting the market was AMD launching the RX 5X00 series, and getting it right. Then the pandemic hit, and the Etherium craze hit simultaneously and people still wanted ~$800 for a 2070 Super when the RX 5700XT was like $450 max.

Without the involvement of video cards, I would be skeptical and disinterested. With it I'm angry, and a little bitter. My logic remains the same in either case.

I don't speak incel, what are you getting on about?

Your repeated use of the term "dry air" is enough to convince me you don't know anything about chemistry or environmental science. How, exactly, do you make "dry air"? Removing moisture from air, a process known as dessication, has to be done in a controlled environment, otherwise the water just comes back. One way to do it is using calcium chloride, CaCL2 (I typo'ed the formula above, sorry), which is indeed a salt, and which happens to react spontaneously with water, making it very effective as a dessicant. Heat does not, in and of itself, remove water from air.

The definition itself implies gambling. A casino without gambling isn't a casino; it's merely a resort. Some aren't even that.

You're confusing trust in the entities and mechanisms that provide crypto services with the currency itself. Bitcoin et. al. have a monetary pool that can expand only in a clearly defined and limited manner. No conventional currency has that. Furthermore, transactions are validated not by central fiat, but in a more transparently democratic manner. Again, you can argue the actual benefit these actually confer, but you cannot sensibly argue that they exist.

Only because you're conflating Bitcoin mining with crypto mining in general. Bitcoin is mostly FPGA or ASIC based now; Ethereum and many others, otoh, are not.

Wrong, on at least three separate counts.

a) The size of a company's R&D budget is a direct function of total market size. Gaming sales now comprise less than 50% of NVidia's revenue. If gamers were their only market, they would be developing new IP at a far slower pace.

b) Running essentially every very chip foundry at 100%+ capacity and above-market rates is quickly accelerating the construction of new capacity, at smaller process node sizes. This means more, faster chips for all.

c) During those periods when crypto prices rapidly decline, many miners sell off blocks of cards, and the resultant market glut drives down prices. Your attempt to decouple the secondary market from the primary fails on basic economics principles; each directly influences the other.

Well, the last time I needed some, I didn't "make" it. I simply bought a cylinder of liquified air. The manufacturer certified the moisture content at only a couple parts per million, which seems pretty dry to me.