I've been talking to a few people about the two classes and essentially what I hear is they are almost equal (except in DPS). That a cleric of course is the 'best' healer, but not by much. In the group game it seems the druid may even be better. Do any of you play both and have some insight into the advantages/disadvantages of each?
Don't let anyone fool you, clerics are by far the best healers. Now, druids can do a good job healing. A good druid can heal very well. But clerics are better. That said, most content can be healed fine by either class. On raids, you usually need a minimum number of clerics to succeed (yes, I'm sure Uber-Guild XYZ has manged to beat the game using only druids, but regardless). Druids heal fine for most things. Other than raids, except for the most difficult content, you can usually get by with a druid. But the rest of the group matters. If you have a top notch tank, a slower, etc., then a druid can do fine. If the rest of the group is not top of the line, a cleric can make the difference. In general, you should play whichever class you think you would enjoy most. If all you care about is healing, then clerics are the best. If you want what a druid brings to the table, then pick one.
Druid is my main and has been for 12 years, but I have botted and played a Cleric as well both in and out of raids. As with any class comparison there are pros/cons strengths/weaknesses. For raids I think you require the raw healing power of Cleric(s). It's all about the numbers a raid boss mob puts out vs what can be healed. For groups there definitely was a time you needed a Cleric but in the last couple expansions Druids have really got some boosts to the healing toolset, especially with group heals, fast .5 sec cast heals, and survival heal set. We still don't have all the skills a Cleric has, no clicky shield, no arbs, no HoTs other than AA versions but for groups, even against most named mobs/quest events I'd say a Druid can not only hold their own but they can add utility and DPS. As mentioned group make up is KEY, if there is a slower, healing is cake. Even if I'm the only healer in a group I can keep the group alive AND DPS in between. Beyond dps, there is utility like ports, evacs, snare/root, debuffs, tracking etc, that my Druid has that I wouldn't want to give up. In short to do it over again, and having played both classes both in groups and in raids I would still pick my Druid any day, but it is all personal preference.
I used to play a shammy, I thought of dusting him off. Did they ever get any better at group healing (other than just rolling group hots?)
i love these posts, if druid is very best at his game and cleric is very best at his game and both are max geared and the moons are aligned then yes a cleric is better at raids then druids for heals, now show me where you ever get that and i would agree however that also dont take into account the skills /aa/gear of either one so these comparisions are not always hard fact. druids in the right hands can run circles around clerics in alot of occasions just as clerics in right hands can hand it back hell shammys can outheal both because they never run out of mana Play what you would be your best at playing and enjoy the classes because now adays there is very little difference more in how the class is played then who is better and at the point you are it will be a long time before you need to worry about outhealing or being outhealed . There is alot of fun to be had between where you are now and that point so pick the class you like.
Yep, Clerics are still top on the priest list. Sure we can point to druids/clerics/shamans and say why one's better than another for some spots... Clerics are the most true healng class... but they fortified the healers with druids and shamans getting more proactive healing when cleric numbers in raids needed help... that said, Clerics have more innate aggro control on their heals... it's a bad wording, but if i remember correctly, clerics get less aggro per heal point than a druid or shaman, which can really help... They get some really amazing heals, like an divine arbitration ability (balance a whole group's health to an average ammount instantly, then they can follow it up with a group heal) Clerics get their big aegolism lined hit point buff that shaman Focus line stacks perfectly with, but druid skin spell does not... Skin spell stacks with focus, but clerics can add a hitpoint mark spell to boost... (showing this to show the comparison ofthe healers)... Clerics also get one spell line that makes casters want some of their other buffs as well, the spell casting focus to cut casting times down... if you're starting out a cleric/shaman, i'd check out what specific race combinations offer... sure, most are the same for all races... but halflings get hide and sneak (level 50 cap for racial skill), sneak can get one thru some tight spots... but Dark elf/troll/human cleric/shaman under inny deity, there's a class/deity specific clicker snare that's questable that clicks the necro darkness spell... but there's some little perks to playing certain combinations... each healer class has it's own disadvantage, but really, it's a matter of playing the class you really like... And learning to make full use of all of it's features to the best you can...
Having played both in group and raid, I have to agree with all the above. Only thing I would add is that clerics have some tricks to increase survivability of group mates that aren't healing but are absolutely necessary in raids.
shamans got some good heal abilities... they're up there under druids under clerics, but with group heals, they're about with druids... both share an emergency heal that heals those in range in the group, the lower their health, the bigger the heal hits for... it's one that if you're not too damaged, you get a modest 3k heal, but if you're almost dead, it lands a 17k base heal on you on the whole group at the same time, but it's got a recast timer, so it's more of an emergency heal there... Druids get a group fast heal but it's not as strong as their single heals... but shaman get a group heal at 92, that does the group, and adds a wave of future heals... Both druids and shaman share the regens on normal regens... but shaman get quick heal over times to do regens on greater heals over a few seconds... at level 98, shamans get an almost 10k base heal... but at 100 they get a group heal over time that does over 6000 per tick for 4 ticks (24 seconds)... shaman also share the Spirit of the wood type AA that druids used to have alone back in planes of power days... group short term heal over time, in both a group form and one that's stronger but in single targeted form... they also added for both druids and shaman some spells that let you do something to the target and it heals the target's target at the same time... with shaman spells it works with one of the slows, for druids it's a nuke that heals the target's main target, and one that heals the target, but sends a nuke to your healing target's target... even more fun, they added to shammy and druids, the exp rezzes... only when out of combat... until combat's over, it's a matter of call of the wild AA 0 exp summoning to get them back...
I only play a cleric for a main (my shaman is lvl 50 and I have no druid). That said ... Level of healing doesn't matter if it's overhealing. So if you only have to be "X" tall to get something done and class A brings "X + 20% more options" and classes B and C bring "X + 5% more options). The better class is class A, but all 3 classes can perform the job adequately. That said, it is really going to determine how you want to get that job done. Items in blue are the more solo options; items in red are the key things for each class (summarized quickly). Do you want a class that is more focused on healing (through single target mostly but also with a group heal and some tricks) but can also responsible for doing some debuffs, can track mobs and port people, and have capabilities for DPS/dotting - and who has some solo options (charming, mercs, etc.) as well as can stack with a cleric merc if necessary. That's a druid. Do you want a class which is more focused on healing (through a mix of single target, group heal and single/group heal over times/elixers and lots of other tricks) who can toss 2 reverse damage shields onto the mob, a little bit of nuking DPS and offer survivability buffs/AA's for players. And whose solo options is more up close and personal with the mobs via tanking (or use mercs) and won't stack as well with a cleric merc unless you like doing more than just healing. That's a cleric. Do you want to play a class who is very buff/cast oriented, focused on healing but also has responsibilities for slowing and malo'ing mobs (depending who you have present), healing the group (through mostly group heals over time and single target heals), can do damage via DOTS primarily and who offers a lot of attributable DPS buffs for melee classes specifically. Solo options are less evident as its more root DOTTING (can use mercs like the others) and will stack with a cleric merc. Basically a class who could cast something nonstop and still have things they could be doing.
Clerics are a plate class and there is always going to be that one heal that draws the mobs aggro. I have been knocked down to 10% and below in the blink of an eye plenty of times before a good tank could taunt the aggro off. I can't help but believe the extra armor helped me pull through and save a wipe on some of those times.
I personally have watched heal parses, and know for a fact that my druid (most times not all) can and does out-heal clerics.
Druids, paladins & clerics are all competitive and have been for quite a while for pure throughput. It depends more-so on assignment, which group you're in, etc.
I see this thread was resurrected! Clerics have a better overall tool set for healing multiple tanks at once, and more emergency heals. In any situation where the aforementioned are not required a druid will perform just as well and have more utility/dps/extras to perform better. Heal parses are mostly just an indication of spell frequency or really well timed heals. Generally there are 2 schools of thought required to parse for healers. One is proactive healing - AKA Spam. Second is reactive healing - aka using emergency heals. Generally you will want most people doing proactive healing since tanks can die so quickly to many modern bosses, then a handful doing reactive just to counteract knockbacks/stuns/mezzes that occur to the proactive healers. I box both a cleric and shaman on raids. The shaman I set up as the Main Tank healer, and just spams the crap out of Mending. The cleric covers all the group healing and then does main tank healing also. The shaman will almost always win every healing parse I have ever done unless one of the other healers went into super reactive healing mode, where they would only cast spells when they new it would land on a damaged tank or were dominated by emergency heals, and generally they will only beat my shaman by less than 10%. However I can say that because she is basically casting a heal every 3 seconds, when she stops healing for whatever reason, the tanks are much more likely to die without that steady source of healing.
Sometimes you find you have clerics who heal on raids like they're in an exp group, where it's a lot easier for them than it is for druids. Sometimes you find druids who would rather do damage than heal. If you can find a druid who heals on raids like he's in an exp group, watch out. A good raid cleric is usually going to out-heal a good raid druid. Not always, and of course it depends on skill and gear and AA's. On most parses, our heal amounts / cast counts rankings will look something like: cleric, cleric, druid, cleric, druid, shaman, cleric, shaman, druid.
Druid healing power has been brought up, but still good step behind cleric. IMO its been brought up too much at the expense of dps and utility. A change that has destroyed the most fun class in the game. to you newer druids who may have started druid as a healing class, sorry, but that is NOT the class that was designed. Druid and cleric should NOT have to be compared. They were classes of completely different designed that have been "reinvisioned" into what SOE and those who did not want another class competing for them in dps (Int classes primarily) decided to force them into. Of course, this sorta of destroyed the grouping and real soloing game for druids forever. Still keeping my druid up on hopes that someday SOE will give them a real break and maybe NERF certain classes that are way OP. yes I run those OP classes too, and not going to mention any names, but they are not really in this "class area" anyway.
your clerics must be slacking 8) Or they are doing other things like reses/buffs healing their group/Main tank/ Off tanks/ other heal assigments... Are you parsing how many other type of spells the clerics are casting along with their heals? You may see that they are doing more then you though.
parsing healers is the most stupid idea ever... do you want your healers to be on the top of parse list, or to keep your group/raid alive ?
I totally agree with this and i've honestly facepalmed everytime i've seen heal parses based on *heal values for the tank* passed around as the word of god. Heal parses have one use: Parsing NUMBER of casts per a priest / healer in the raid and looking at exactly what spells they cast and when. Beyond that they are junk. Tank parses posting heals that land on them achieve one thing: it makes it so a couple bad healers mask their bad skill by focus breathing all their heals on the one or two tanks that frequently post tank parses listing who healed them. End result? The person does terrible at healing everyone else yet looks like gods gift to priesthood based solely on the log post by on vocal player. Heal parses are not useful to the same extent dps parses are. DPS parses are good for comparing dps + spell casts + order of casts + cast amount. Heal parses are only good for spell casts / cast amount.
I rather disagree that healing amount parses are completely worthless, but agree that they absolutely are not as valuable as a DPS parse, for several reasons, some of which you have mentioned. I do still think they can be informative when they are combined with cast counts and other parsing information, because they let you know how effective that player usually is on each heal over the course of the fight. If you just look at cast counts, though, you can fall into similar traps when you're evaluating effectiveness. We have had clerics (and a druid or two) in the past who would just cycle through their pre-determined healing spell rotation without apparently paying any sort of attention to the situation. Regular heal, quick heal, regular heal, group heal, rinse, repeat. So the group gets healed when they're at full health and maybe the group heal isn't available when they do need it, but no matter, since that wasn't going to be the next spell in the healer's rotation anyway. Or maybe the group heal isn't needed at all. These guys might rock the cast counts but they can suck as healers - I've seen a healer continue to cast his rotation on a tank who has dropped aggro for the next tank in line for at least several minutes. Their target doesn't show up on the cast count. Now, obviously, sometimes, fairly regularly even, if you're healing the main tank, you're going to hit him with a heal when he's at full health and it shows up on your cast count but not on the healing parse, and that might make you look less effective. But over the course of the evening, the more prolific / more effective healers are going to eventually separate themselves from the ones who are not, if you're looking at it from multiple angles. So, I wouldn't disregard any parse information as worthless any more than I would take any parse information as gospel. You just have to know what it's useful for, and what it isn't.
