Allof these spells have a slow compnent, but do they stack? Is there a reason to use all 3 of spells or any combination on the same target. Will the slow/heal effect of apathy stack with counterbais? they just seem like the same line of spells
The slow part of counterbias and turgur do not stack, one will overwrite the other. Turgur slow lasts longer than counterbias but both slow for the same amount of 75%. Apathy or newer Fatigue do stack with either counterbias slow or turgur, whichever has landed as stated above. There has been mention that the actual slow components also stack but I don't know if it has been confirmed through parses. If it does truly stack it is a little bit of an "over" slow, sort of the exact opposite of overhaste. The slow on the Apathy line is 25% and is also mitigated like any other slow. The heal part of counterbias does not stack with the heal part of apathy. Apathy adds a little extra agro for tanks by procing the slow spell and the small hot isn't great but does help a little bit. For raids we try to keep Apathy(Fatigue) on all the tanks. I try to land counterbias first then add turgur for longer duration fights. Counterbias has a slightly higher resist mod than turgurs (-60 vs -50)
These do not stack, but it does not mean they are not all used. Apathy is a defensive proc buff. Cast it on the tank (alternatively the tank and puller). The mob gets a small slow (25% or so) which although is small is better an none. This is especially useful when multiple mobs are pulled and all can be slowed for a short duration. Plus it has other benefits/effects that are useful even without the slow component. Counterbias is a heal over time and two minute slow (max slow). It is useful as both an initial heal and slow combo. Turgors is a long slow (7ish minutes, also max slow). This is useful on longer fights when the slow of counterbias would wear off. While you might see both the apathy trigger AND a real slow on a mob, it is only slowed to the greatest one, aka the 75%one. Counterbias is good if the shaman is the main healer of the group, or help is needed in healing. The AA slow, although is not focus extended, is better for all-around use as it gives you an extra spell slot for some additional dot/spell. The recast is fast enough to allow you to slow multiple mobs. Don't forget there is also an AE slow AA for those times you reLly need a few slowed at once.
Just at the info Apathy is a close to a reverse hundred hands effect so it would stack with other slows 2: Increase Melee Delay by 25% 3: Increase Disease Counter by 16
No, Hundred Hands Effect is "decrease weapon delay," haste is "increase melee haste," slow is "increase melee delay." It is as Elizabeta said, the effects stack, but only the highest takes effect, just like having Talisman of Celerity and Hastening of Sviir on- the haste doesn't stack, only the highest takes effect. Apathy is useful because defensive procs are an insurance policy- if too many adds spawn, et cetera, it buys time for the shaman to stabilize health with heals, get Wind of Malis out, use Drowse and cycle AA slow in between- debuffing takes time. The aggro accrued from it, too, attributes to the tank, not the shaman, who only gets the minor aggro of casting a buff on someone on a hate list. Counterbias HoT and Apathy HoT do not stack, but one is cheaper to maintain, and Turgur's lasts longer than Counterbias.
apathy needs to have the hot portion changed to a direct heal so the heal portion of the spell is useful with bias. because i'm an iksar of the people, let's make it heal for 2846/2988/3137 (same as reptile). let's add 18 counters (half as many as reptile). and let's triple the mana cost (1890). this should keep druid rage away from the deafening level. mirite?
No. Remove the counters from reptile. Sync'ing the defensive proc buffs should match them towards the best version, not the worst.
This is not correct. "Normal" Haste and Slow are the same thing. It is SPA 11 and is listed by Raidloot as "Increase/Decrease Melee Haste." Basically, you have 100% Attack Speed without any modifiers. When you get a buff containing SPA 11, it can be either Haste OR Slow, it depends on the value. If the value is LESS than 100, your attack speed is lowered, and you are said to be "slowed." If it is OVER 100, your attack speed is raised, and you are said to be "hastened." Example: Shaman Turgur's is SPA 11 with a value of 25. (Technically it isn't 25 because it is a scaling value, but never mind that, for all intents and purposes it is 25). Because 25 is < 100, the mob is said to have been slowed by 00-25 = 75%. Enchanter's Hastening of Sviir is SPA 11 with a value of 168. Because 168 is > 100, you are said to have 168 - 100 = 68% Haste. SPA 11 is coded to only accept the lowest value. This means if you have a buff with the value of 25, (the slow), and a buff with the value of 168, (the haste), EQ will ignore the default 100%, and the haste buff, and only read the slow buff. This is why multiple spell hastes do nothing. "Wait a minute, what about Worn Haste Beimeith? Why does that stack, it is SPA 11 like the others and you just said they don't stack?" Excellent Question. The reason why Worn Haste stacks, (as well as other worn effects), is that spells that are Worn are processed separately from spells that are Buffs. (At least, most of them are). "Ok then, what about Overhaste?" Another Excellent Question. Overhaste stacks because it is a different SPA that also controls Attack Speed. Why they decided to make multiple SPAs that do the same thing rather than just change the first one to stack I do not know, but this is what they did. There are 2 forms of Overhaste: Version 1, (Melee Haste v2 as it is shown by parsers) is a rarely used form that only seems to exist on very old Bard songs. It is SPA 98. From what I can tell, it appears to work the same as SPA 11. I didn't really do a lot of testing because it isn't used on anything current as far as I can tell. Version 2, (Melee Haste v3 as it is shown by parsers) is on the current Bard Songs and Overhaste Clickies. It is SPA 119. From what I can tell, it works differently than SPA 11. While SPA 11 sets your Attack Speed directly, SPA 119 simply adds on top of that. That is, a value of 25 for SPA 11 means it is a 75% slow, but a value of 25 for SPA 119 means it is a 25% haste. Now, while Overhaste stacks because it is a different SPA, it is still subject to the lowest value rule. This means if you have a slow using SPA 11, it will STILL override Overhaste SPA 98/119, even though they are different SPAs. Worn Haste is also subject to the lowest rule even though it is processed separately. Additionally, there is a global hard Attack Speed cap of 200% for SPA 11, and 225% for SPA 119. At least, I believe these are the caps. Using SPA 11 I should have been 205% but it wouldn't go over 200. Now, what about Apathy? Apathy is listed by parsers as "Melee Delay" and is SPA 371. As far as I can tell, it also affects Attack Speed, not Delay like Weapon Delay. It seems to work like a reverse of Overhaste Version 2 (Melee Haste v3 SPA 119). That is, SPA 371 adds a negative amount of Attack Speed. A value of 25 for SPA 371 means it subtracts 25% Attack Speed. It does not SET your Attack Speed to 25%. This means that if you are fully hastened, (225% Attack Speed), and you are hit by Apathy which is 25%, you will NOT have an Attack Speed of 100 - 25 = 75%. You will have an Attack Speed of 225 - 25 = 200. It does not override the others, it stacks with them, (it is just stacking a negative). SPA 371 is also subject to the lowest rule as far as I can tell, meaning that it is NOT an "Overslow," which I believe is what you meant by "stacking." It does -stack-, it just doesn't Overslow. It also means that if the mobs you are killing have self-haste buffs and your Shaman is not actually slowing and is just using Apathy, the mob is still hastened and not slowed.
Shrunk 'cause lots of spacing et cetera. I was referring to the wording that Ronthorn used- when nabbing ones' spell descriptions from raidloot, Hundred Hands is quite specifically weapon delay, not melee delay. Which... it is. Slows and haste use the melee nomenclature, not weapon. Talisman of Celerity and Hastening of Sviir are both spell haste. They stack on the person. The effects do not stack- only the strongest takes precedence. Obviously, I did not address slow or haste overwriting each other. And, by extension, was not talking about the override of a regular slow on a haste effect, which a slowing class sees as a "strip" of a haste effect when they are debuffing mobs (because one icon disappears to be replaced by the other). Talking about stacking between Apathy and Turgur's or COunterbias, for the purpose of this shaman-related conversation, is about the fact that Apathy and Turgur's, as an example, will both land on a mob at once, and not overwrite or block each other. But you don't end up with a 100% slow (not SPA, layman's terms) in practice. You only have the slow "strength" of the Turgur's. Otherwise, Apathy would be the strongest slow in the game in practice most of the time, as regular slow is mitigated on virtually everything since GoD to some degree, and once you hit that, you could then "stack" another 25% slowing on top of a mitigated slow, which is not what is happening. Lingering Sloth line utilizes the different SPA because it is dependent upon sticking the initial trigger slow to get a chance at proccing the heal recourse- if it were functionally the same (AKA SPA 11, but that is more than most people want to delve into spells), the heal would never ever cast (due the the slow constantly bouncing and the conditions for the 30% chance for a heal over time recourse never occurring), greatly diminishing the usefulness of the spell. It still stands. Apathy's slow is used to buy time, especially in large piles of mobs. It is not "overslow" for the purpose of further debuffing mobs. Its' utility for buffing players is a catch-all passive pre-slow chance, additional aggro generation from casting a debuff via defensive procs for the person getting hit, and passively maintaining a heal over time. It is less healing than counterbias, but a lot cheaper.
Based on spell data and anecdotal evidence, I have feeling that you will find apathy actually does provide an "over" slow to normal slows. I don't think it can equal 100% but some added benefit is there. I will try to parse some of this and see what I can find.
Need an update on this. Attack delay ought to be one of the easiest things to parse. I was going to do it myself but my parsers are out of date.
