Completely non-gamechanging request

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tegila, May 16, 2018 at 4:55 PM.

  1. Tegila Augur

    For those of us not filly out of the stoneage and thus on satellite ISP (whoch for me is unplayable but my required patching medium) or otherwise on a data-limited service (like my 4g tether i have to use to actually play) ..could there possibly be made for patches either a standalone installer or zip file with all the updated files patch to patch, that can just be unzipped direct (withpresumably copy and replace checlmarked) and the correct changelog so that anyone under any such circumstances can simply download the patch and install it manually?

    The purpose to this is multifaceted. First of all, those of us on a metered network would only have to download said patch once, then use other media like a flash drive, to install to multiple locations, rather than download it for every eq install in the house. The other main reason for this is that on satellite and other slow connections, but mainly satellite due to latency, your patcher won't even connect, it times out nearly instantly instead of allowing us to PATCH before trying to log in. I can run eqgame.exe from shortcut with patchme in between patches and never have an issue logging in, but run the patcher and it will never connect to login server without a lot of repeated attempts. Repeat this at least 4 times, 6 if i do the living room computer and test server, then factor in the very slow download itself and it's after midnight before I will ever get on the game tonight.

    Allowing a zip download, or a standalone patch installer to be available would be great. One that only has the updated files from one patch to the next, would greatly streamline the process. The alternative, though it wouldn't help with metered connections, would be to allow patching directly without having to contact and establish this and that connection first. People patched the game on dialup and satellite no problem in years past, but I've found the faster internet is available in cities, the less tolerant websites and log in servers for many things become.
  2. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    You can do this yourself, though not "incrementally." If you have a large enough flash drive, you can put the entire EQ directory on a flash drive and copy it over. You only have to be careful of your ini files that might have different settings you want.
  3. doah Elder

    Keeping track of ini files is why a zip of the updated files would be preferred I suspect. Can just copy and replace instead of possibly overwriting ini on other systems.
  4. Khat_Nip Augur

    Or from a Command Prompt right after you patch 1 machine:

    xcopy drive:\path\*.* newdrive:\newpath /D:m-d-y /S /R /Y /EXCLUDE:.ini

    drive:\path = your main Everquest directory. (e.g. C:\EQ)
    newdrive:\newpath = the destination for the files. (e.g. E:\ (your flashdrive))
    /D:m-d-y = only copy files on or newer than date specified. (e.g. /D: 5-16-2018)
    /S = copy directories and subdirectories where applicable.
    /R = overwrite read-only files.
    /Y = don't prompt to copy each file, just do it.
    /EXCLUDE:.ini = don't copy .ini files over that may overwrite the target.

    Example right after patching today:

    xcopy C:\EQ\*.* E:\ /D:5-16-2018 /S /R /Y /EXCLUDE:.ini

    This would copy only the newly touched files from today from that EQ directory to our flashdrive E. You could then plop that flashdrive into another machine and overwrite those patch files to another EQ install the same way, excluding the date parameter if you wish.

    (edit: forgot to mention the /exclude option).
  5. Tegila Augur

    Exactly doah, you think I want to copy and paste 12gigs or more 5 times? And then redo or undo the 60+ files related to specific chars and/or computers. No, copy and paste entire folder is only how I installed, it took hours per install to then fix it.

    It's not just about that, but being able to connect to get the update in the first place, which is 100% internet speed vs patcher tolerance for internet speed. I know for a fact I am not the only person with this issue, you may think because you don't see people on satellite in San Diego or NYC or Chicago and no one gets mailboxes full of aol discs anymore, that magically everyone has access to ibroafband, but they don't. Sadly this country is far far behing europe for internet availability, particularlt *IN* the country lol. we've been fighting for 3 years for cable, 2 years for the last mile down the road to us from where it stops and there are a lot of people on this road. Hey plan to do so in another 2 years. There are other areas of the country much worse off in hoping for actual broadband, and for any number of reasons, some even use dialup (I seriously thought about it before we got a cell booster bc there's little latency at least, and that's what makes the game unplayable on satellite)

    It's just a simple request to think about. I'm sure many in the situation don't even bother with the forums bc that's almost as hard to connect to at times as the patcher, but I am not alone, and I didn't come back 3 years ago bc of my internet as it is. I'd rather not leave again bc I can't even patch effectively.
    moogs likes this.
  6. Tegila Augur

    Thanks khat, will try that of o can get one machine to even patch, thus the request to just have a zip file to do or whatever. ISPspeed as well as data limitations both play a part.
  7. Khat_Nip Augur

    Actually I just realized this isn't going to work as Windows for some reason isn't modifying all of the file dates as you would expect when the files are patched, rendering the /D (date parameter) moot.
    Stupid Windows.
  8. ForumBoss Lorekeeper

    If you have wired ethernet, it's quite fast to rsync the folder across PC's. You can use freefilesync or something similar if you're not comfortable doing this on the command line, and it will only copy changed files. Flash drives are fairly slow for copying/replacing the entire EQ folder. Another benefit of doing this is you have your ini files synced across PC's, so you can play any char/trader anywhere.
  9. Tegila Augur

    I do not want ini files synced as every screen is different, and I never move toons. I also don't have wired internet to my computers thougj if i wanted to crawl around under the desk i could hook up an old router or switch and wire them all together, but yeah, i only want the patches, and i have to be able to get it in the first place. I also don't need 4 5 or 6 copies of 7years of chat/parse logs that's in my main client.

    This patch is only 8mb the one machine that finally connected says, last i looked it was still downloading that lol. It takes longer to get the patcher to actually connect than to do the updates though, after 90 minutes I still haven't gotten them all to connect, thus the request to just download and install myself.

    It's not just for me either, I know there aren't a LOT of us in eq today on satellite, but I do know there are players using it, and the latency of satellite is the biggest hurdle as the patcher won't register the connection for a very very long time, if at all. The game may log in and function, though not playable, on 1400ms and higher ping, but the patcher won't recognize that as a connection at all, and won't even show your account dropdown, the rotating ads, or start checking your files. When and if it finally does, it takes another 10 minutes with a green play button before starting the file check and the download. Tolerance for latency in the patcher is too narrow. There's a reason there are web installers as well as offline installers for internet browsers, programs that are useless without the internet, because it is absurdly slower connecting, scanning, and updating over a slow connection compared to downloading and installing flat out, and those are tiny programs. Oh how I miss real internet, and come the next expansion I will be begging for a cdrom on the shelves for the first time in a decade.

    I looked at the dates on the files in my eq folder from the last patch, and most are inside subfolders, which makes plopping those files on a flash drive manually require re-sorting them into the correct folders also, and hope that your computer did actually update the date/time on everything.

    I'm not looking for a work around or quick fix here, I know they will all patch eventually, but this could be so much more efficient and possibly take some load off the patch server on patch days, if a file were available to download for those so inclined. Once I'm patched I never touch that launcher again til next patch, or I'd never play the game.
  10. Riou Augur

    If you look at .DownloadInfo.txt in your eq directory it will show you all the files it removes, modifies or adds each patch, you could then carry over those specific files
  11. Tegila Augur

    Again, if i can get the patch in the first place, and then have to sprt those files onto the correct subfolders anyway.

    I guess this is one of those things that would be better off in feedback that no longer exists, or a suggestion box that only allows for a "me too" like a Like button, and a "no way" this would destroy the game imo button. That would be a good subforum, no? Where all threads are autolocked except for the initial edit function to the OP, a dev response in case they want to make one, and yay or nay votes. My only concern would be people nay voting thongs bc they personally don't need or see a use in something even though it would absolutely in no way affect them or the game, like this. Some of the suggestions from such a subforum could be put into polls every couple weeks and let each have yes, no, idc checkboxes, to give the devs ideas of things that are needed or wanted, without having arguments on forums about it lol, or having ONLY forum readers ever see it. What I'm asking for in this thread is something that those needing it probably almost never would go to forums for the same reason they need this request
  12. segap Augur


    Either way, you need to download the patch at least once someplace. There's no getting around that. Then there's the issue of what happens if you want that zip file to apply to an install that's two or more patches behind? Taking dev resources to make patch set downloads every patch and then to deal with what happens when improperly applied by the non-technical will just create more problems.
  13. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    You can do that pretty much with powershell, using the above-mentioned .DownloadInfo.txt
    If you copy+edit that patch-day's (relevant) entry into "mypatch.txt" manually,
    you can even use the answer to this question; else you might want to look into a bit more "fluff" scripting to even do that for you.

    They're providing the data you need to do what you want already, how fail-safe and comfortable you want it despite not wanting to use their supplied and supported method (launchpad) would then be up to you imo.

    I run several install-dirs too, but i am also not on some limited bandwidth subscription so i have no issues to simply edit the directories in my launchpad-link once a month and download the patch n times.
    Even so, if it's only a few files, i often just copy the selected files over too - but in cases like the current patch that becomes cumbersome and i let the patcher do the work.
    Even though i do not see the problem with downloading 8MB or even 70MB per patch and installation even on today's limited subscriptions which usually run in the GB's, with powershell and a list of the touched files, i am sure you can find a way to automate the process for yourself.
  14. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Note. I'm also not saying that we are outright rejecting the idea, only giving a suggestion, like the other posters are. That said, it's not in my bailiwick to do more than bring it up. That would be a code thing :)
    Janakin likes this.
  15. Niskin Augur

    I sympathize with the situation you're in, but I don't think you'll see any effort put into addressing this. There were actually people providing such a zip file up until recently, to address the issues with patching on WinXP, which broke a while back. Now that the game no longer works on XP, there is no need to work around the patcher and so those zip files aren't being created.

    The number of people who were trying to run EQ on WinXP is likely far greater than the number who are limited to satellite internet, which is about the only type of internet connection that actually suffers from this kind of severe latency. You're in a bad situation, but it's a rare one, so it's unlikely to be worth addressing in any way that takes more than one hour of dev time, once. It sucks, but it's realistic.

    You may still be able to use one of those file sync apps, even over WiFi. Those would certainly require the least amount of upkeep. Maybe set that up and try dial-up again. Let the patch download overnight and get synced to the other machines. It means that once a month or so you won't be able to play on a Wednesday night, but that might be a better option than what you are doing currently.
  16. Tegila Augur

    Lol, I already pretty much can't at on patchnights, but eventually it goes through. One thing I suggested wouldn't require time every patch, just a tiny change to the patcher or patch server, not sure which is theunforgiving one. The biggest time aspect of this is The latency preventing connection to DO the patch. I can connect to login no problem, I can get the patches (8mb like yesterday's really doesn't make a difference for the metered connection aspect) but taking hours to even get the patcher to connect to the patch server because it is so absolutely intolerant, that is the main problem. A tweak in that would make it reasonably usable. When a new expansion launches would have to do the filesync method making sure nothing gets touched that's not necessary, but that's once, maybe twice (when there's a part B like RoF had) a year.

    This is why I kept saying it's a latency issue with hooking to the patch server in the first place that causes the most issue. Metered connection can be worked around and really is irrelevant for normal patchi nh, but why does the connection to the patch server have to be so inflexible? If it had the same parameters as the loginserver all would be fine and dandy, though perhaps it is a combination of connecting to login AND patch servers, thus why I asked if maybe could just remove the login requirement to begin a patch. It's not like there's a single thing you download that requires someone to pay, the paying is about the ability to use. With or without the current expa sion, everyone downloads it, including TLP players, as server select comes later, and I know there's no patch after buying expansion later it's launch.

    Does that at least sound reasonable? Adjust the tolerance on the connection required to begin a patch, so that it will at least accept 8 or 900ms, as that is doable on satellite it's just not dependable, if I tried to play on satellite it often slows to 14 to 1800 MS, but we just need to be able to allow everyone to connect to get started. Adjust that tolerance, or remove the requirement to begin patching, and everything's good. It's like having to install a wheelchair ramp for a business even if they rarely get customers needing one. A 1 time thing that won't hurt anything else.
  17. Tegila Augur

    Thanks
    Thank you for the response. I'm not asking for ongoing thing, unless it would be just as easy to make patches as executables across the board, but then everyone has to do them in order and track what's what, I'm really just asking for the required connection when you open the patcher, to be flexible enough to use with this latency, or removed so it opens and starts scanning before you even have to select an account or whatever. I've never lost the connection once it finds it, but it can't seem to find it for a very long time and a lot of attempts, so the whole issue is in the initial connection. So, if the request gets seen by yhe right people maybe it could be remedied in a few minutes. Thank you.
  18. Niskin Augur


    If there is any change that they could make with minimal effort, adjusting timeout lengths could potentially be it. But it could also be buried in old code that they don't touch anymore, out of fear it would break and they'd have to write something new to replace the old functionality.

    But I believe the patcher is newer, unlike the login client and server selection screens, so that could improve the chances. Either way, good luck. Although finally getting high-speed internet would be the preferred solution, because who wants to live without that?
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    It is still possible to live in areas where high speed internet is not available and your choice is dial up or satellite.
  20. Niskin Augur


    Yes, I'm aware. I had a co-worker who worked from home in another state and could only get satellite internet. I'm also aware of how bad satellite internet is, as I had to support her trying to do her job over it. The latency is horrendous, and I sympathize with those who are stuck with it.

    I would think that even the most rural areas would get high-speed eventually. I know there are companies working on long range WiFi-based internet access and stuff like that. But the OP is right that it could still take years from this point.

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