Classic (Not Progression) Server Rule Set; For the Fans!

Dear Sony Developers and Classic Fans:



Greetings. I know, I know.............there have been quite literally over a hundred threads (in TLP section alone) asking for a new progression server, but this is a new idea, so please read this in entirety, or skip the end conclusion for the point. I am not a normal poster (1st one). I wanted to give my take on a new rule set for a new server and update people on the status.

----------------------------------------------Section 1--------------------------------------------------

I request a classic type rule set server: not necessarily a "Progression" server. No. It does not have be a progression at all, and if there is progression, it's not the central focus. There are many different ideas and ways to implement a classic server. Many have been mentioned by fans in the forums, and you see other ways on other programs.

I myself would prefer a classic rule set that includes the original game + Kunark and/or Velious upon release. You can call it ClassicARK, or The Triad. Instead of waiting 3 months solely on Everquest original, I would enjoy the chance to level up in original, Kunark, and/or Velious. Many zones in Kunark and Velious were designed to level in (Kurns, Tower of Frozen Shadow, frontier, warsilik, dreadlands, greater divide, crystal caverns, etc, etc). Unlike Flippy's release, It would be awesome instead of waiting 3 months solely on the original EQ, to be able to level up in Kunark and/or Velious zones from the getgo. Instead of releasing these expasions months later, when most of the populace is level 50, and has surpassed any zone below this. It would also alleviate some of the overpopulation of newer areas you saw on Flippy, as there would be more space for people to occupy. You could even go as far as to originally release Planes of power and below, or Luclin and below.



Then, beyond this there are many options, as long as the focus is set on the classic style itself. First and foremost, I'd like to say a "progression" server such as Flippy there was a divide between the majority players, and the elite players/guilds racing to unlock content first. Essentially, it was a competition between elites, while the rest of the populace thoroughly enjoyed being in the classic setting. Hence, this "Classic" rule set differs from "Progression" in that regard as well. It's central focus of the game is not on progression; the focus is on the classic setting.

Therefore, additional rules after the original classic release must promote balance between classic feel and future content or unlocks. There is not one answer, but many possibilities. You can time-lock future expansions forever, or for a certain length of time such as the first 6-9 months. You could also go the vote path after X time, and continue on the path of a progression (slower than Flippy or = to). Or you could release expasions every X time such as every 6 months regardless of a vote. Or upon creation of the server, you could have people vote which expansions should never be included in the server. For instance, you will release each expansion in X time, but you will skip Gates of Discord entirely and move on. I am sure there are also other creative ideas. The developers or fans could probably come up with some cool twists or additional rule sets.

However, the core rule set is a classical rule set release, hopefully with Kunark in the original release. A classic rule set is what so many people desire (keep reading).

------------------------------------------------Section 2------------------------------------------------

Well, I recently logged onto Everquest the past few days, and have been playing on Luclin-Stromm. However, it has not fulfilled that strong itch. The reason I came back is because is mainly because I wanted to play on a classic rule set server. Hence I started digging through these forums to see if I was alone. I was not. There are literally hundreds of threads (and well over a thousand replies total on all threads dating back to 2012) requesting a new time-locked server.



Unfortunately, I was very sad to discover two posts by Piestro and Thom Terrazas very concisely stating there are no plans in the works for a classic server.



Jadehalo, who posted February 3rd 2014, was directed to Mr Terrazas from Mr. Smed himself, at the recent AMA

"We have not been planning to open a new TLP server. There are two TLP servers now and I’m not sure what another TLP server would serve. We have been discussing other alternative servers with different rule sets but nothing is in the plan at the moment. I’ll bring up your thoughts with the team and see how everyone feels about it.Thank you for your feedback,Thom TerrazasSony Online Entertainment, LLC."



Piestro on February 4th

"We'll keep it in mind. No plans at the moment but it's something we talk about every so often."



Piestro goes on to confirm in one more post that Flippy Darkpaw took months in advance to plan. Hence if he said this on February 4th, and they have no plans yet, then it would be months away if planned today. Again, this makes me very sad, as I thought they would almost certainly release a new rule set around the time of the anniversary or just before it. Hopefully, we can encourage them to consider a classic rule set that is better and different from Flippy.



I personally have seven, yes 7 (not exaggerated), people I have directly communicated desiring to play a classic server on gold membership. Two currently play games like Everquest, two play WOW, and three are not really gaming at all right now. I don't want to use other projects for my own reasons.



You may say, well your an EQ nerd, you happen to know every other EQ nerd- not true. I myself have not been gaming any game for the last 3 years. Last time I played was 2011 Flippy Darkpaw and anniversary events. I have not really been playing anything except some League of Legends. Again, it goes to show that people who aren't even using other MMOs are always thinking of coming back to a classic style.



Here are some questions to ponder about the population for a classical type server set:

--If I have 7 people raring to go, then how many people does each fan who posted a thread requesting a classic server have?

--How many people who are not playing anything would come play if they heard of a new classic?

--How many people missed out on Flippy and want another shot (seen a number of em in forums)?

--How many people on bronze or silver subscriptions would update to gold to play on a classic rule set?

--How many people from games or projects similar to everquest don't want to use them for whatever reason, or would come over anyhow.





The number of requests in the forums, the number of people pledging to play (look at my network alone), and the high population of Flippy Darkpaw the first X months, all show there is enough of this crowd to validate the true discussion of a new classic rule set server. Not just validate a new classic rule set, but to fill such a project to the brim.

-------------------------------------------------Section 3-----------------------------------------------

Again, there have been so many threads and replies about opening a new progression server (I don't like the word progression), which is great and shows how many people here want this. Some people have been asking so long, they are even becoming quite skeptical of this happening. I see many posts saying "it would only take so much work you'd make Y and y profit, so why the hell doesn't Sony do this?" Well, I am not going to pretend to know how much work a new classic ruleset server would take. I am not going to predict the revenue generated versus time/costs. I'm not a coder, and I am not on the EQ team. I trust these people are plenty smart enough to already know these aspects, or figure them out.



All I know is there are absolutely more than enough fans present and ready to fill (max population) a classic type rule set server- right now.





Maybe for some unforseeable reason (at least unforseeable to the fans) the EQ team has not discussed this. Well, nobody can pretend to know what their plans are, etc. Maybe they simply don't want to add a new classic rule set because they have already done that (creative value). Maybe its too much work for a small team. The developers have stated they are considering some new rule set. Maybe they have not realized how many people desire a new classic rule set server. It is what the fans have requested most for a new rule set, is some form of return to the classic.

I am not angry at the team, nor any other individual. I will not blame anyone or speak negatively. I will not whine and plead "o woe is me, I want to play a computer game". I sure hope the team will consider this post, other constructive posts, as well as the sheer volume of requests. I will be perfectly happy in life not gaming at all, but if I do, I would like it to be Everquest Classic Rule Set Variation. I am ready, are you? Ikso!



I would like to ask if you support some form of classic rule set server, then please comment. The more comments and support, the more the EQ team sees this. Along with yourself, provide a true honest answer of how many people would come along for the adventure (no exaggerations please). You may also include your variation of the classic rule set for further ideas.



Thank you.

Flippy, Jobobo and others, thank you your ideas.

There is support for a classic server. I think they know this but haven't really had the resources to put anything together. The dev chat bombshell was "what kind of special rule server would you like to see?": Answer: server locked at PoP.

If they can do a server locked at PoP, they can add servers locked at *whatever* for people to move to when they are suffering from non "progression" syndrome. Server locked at SoD next up...

Just call them classic servers and give them an expansion to lock at. This is far easier than running whatever-locked progression servers by far.

I really don't think a "Locked" server is the way to go. Eventually it will stagnate and people will quit. As we saw with the Progression servers, it only takes 2-3 months for a guild to fully equip all their raiders in full PoP gear and then what do you do? Make new guys? Quit, more than likely (Which is what happened on the servers - people need to know that the next expansion is coming or they won't play)

I think Progression is still the way to go, but I think it should be much slower and VARIABLE. Instead of every expansion being on the same unlock timer, make certain Xpacs that are more "beloved" last longer. So while Classic may last 90 days (which is long enough for Classic really), Kunark may last 120 Days, Velious 180 Days, Luclin 90-120 Days, PoP 240 - 365 days (With Staggered LDON/LOY releases).

This way Classic - PoP end will be 2-3 years instead of 1.5 years. This will give people much more incentive to stick around and "take it slower."

You could always release a second ruleset server with faster unlocks (Ala Sleeper/Combine) for people who prefer the "faster" feel. Just make sure to make it so you can transfer from the "slow" server to the "fast" server (but not the other way around) if people so choose.

The problem is that the EQ Devs don't seem to realize that people want a new progression server. As evidenced by people E-Mailing the producer (What is his name? Tom or something?) and his response was: "I don't know what a new set of progression servers would serve since we already have a set going"...

If he doesn't understand the entire idea behind the progression servers (Which really is to relive the OLD Everquest days, Pre-GoD) then that is a serious problem for us. It also is kind of sad that the Head guy in charge of EQ doesn't even have a clue that there is a large population of people who want this kind of thing. Did he even play Everquest back in the early 2000's? Ugh, just annoying that the guy in charge seems so out of touch with their playerbase.

This is the problem with these posts. That's not the entire idea behind progression servers. Maybe it's why some people play on them, but it's not why Sony created them (or they would have ended at PoP.) And clearly it's not why people are still around playing them years after we're past those expansions. Please don't assume that everyone is just like you and wants the same things you want.

@Machen - I get it that you love the current progression servers. I also get that you spend every ounce of your energy on these forums defending the current state of those servers (as evidenced by your mountain of posts in other threads).

That all being said, you are a little delusional if you don't recognize that the servers took a huge nosedive with GoD launch. I played through PoR, and It was VERY obvious that after Velious launch the population declined (Though not as large as some people like to say, but there was a decline), but the biggest decline was definitely with the launch of GoD. Vulak easily saw half to 2/3rds its population vanish when GoD launched. This is to be expected.

So while you love reliving all the expansions, its very clear that the large majority of the total people who played on the progression servers enjoyed Original - PoP and then quit. So while that may not be Sony's original idea behind the servers, it should be.

^ ultimately the fact that you were on Fippy really hurt you in terms of being able to see the impact that expansions had on player base. Fippy had so many more people that if 1000 people quit then it didn't seem like as huge a drop as if 1000 people quit Vulak and suddenly more than half its population was gone. Being the smaller server Vulak was better able to see the trends of people coming and going because everyone knew everyone else. When people came and went we all knew it cause there were only 2-3 guilds the entire time.

Let me explain it this way, Vulak has 2000 people, GoD launches and 1000 people left. That is something that is easily seen and easily felt. Fippy on the other hand had 6000, and then 3000 left with GoD - but then Fippy still has 3000 freaking people. You wouldn't have felt the effects as much as Vulak - so the "drop" wouldn't have been as perceivable to you.

You cannot generalize like that. Your conclusion is based on anecdotal evidence (since you don't have the hard data to prove it.) Plus, you are assuming that everyone left at that time because of the progression, and it's very unlikely to be the case.

The populations dropped, that's true. But you are also discounting the possibility that people may have left at that time because the GoD did not pass and they got frustrated and left. That is also a possibility of the population decline at that time.

It could also be argued that the decline that you are indicating isn't as great as you think it is, and the servers just lost people thru attrition. My Vulak guild was going into Depths of Darkhollow and only around that time the population got to the point where several of us moved to Fippy which seems to have a decent population to this day (my guild there consistently fields a full raid force, sometimes with 3 or 4 extras sitting out.)

I think Trevalon is right in his thoughts. The Pit of Despair on Fippy (aka Dragons, Depths and Prophecy with no levels and few AAs) leads me to believe that it is not inconceivable to think that people will get tired of the same things before long and move on.

I've posted hard numbers before on things like # of guilds, #'s of people in general chat, #'s of people completing ldon adventures, #'s of toons in the bazaar. Maybe half your population left on Vulak, I don't know. I didn't play there. But no matter how you slice it, there is no way 50% of the population left on Fippy at this point. We saw at most a 10-20% decline in total population between the end of PoP and the start of OoW.

Again, this is not based on my perception, my sense of how many people I saw running around. It's based on measurable #'s that taken together paint a fairly accurate picture of overall server population trends. If 50% of the people leave your server, then roughly half the raid guilds will fold, the #'s in general chat will be around 50% what they were before, the number of bazaar toons will drop by 50%, etc, etc. None of that ever happened on Fippy until around TBS. Anyone who ran logs consistently through these expansions can pretty easily verify at least some of this.

Maybe your perspective is skewed because you played on Vulak, and a few people leaving there was much more likely to create a snowball effect with the low pop to begin with. Anecdotally, on Fippy, when most of the leadership of Twisted Legion quit during the GoD era, it didn't even have a huge impact on that one guild (aside from how competitive they were.) They still kept pressing on and raiding with a strong raid force.

At any rate, my main point is that people play on progression servers for different reasons. Not everyone plays on these servers just to experience the first five expansions again. I won't make the claim that everyone wants to play through every expansion like I do. That's clearly not the case. But it clearly IS the case that quite a lot of people are enjoying playing the post GoD expansions and didn't quit at PoP. I don't know why it is so inconceivable to you guys that these people actually exist. Even if half the population had quit at Gates, that would still leave half the population here and still playing. And of course, that's not at all what happened, at least on Fippy.

Thanks for your replies. However, please don't turn this post into a war between the (1) current pro-progression and the (2) I want a new progression.

This is not the idea of this posts. It's fine if you want to comment against the idea, that's completely fine, but this is for people who want to discuss new possible rule sets, hopefully rule sets based around a Classic Set Server.

Those who want to stay on the current progression do not have to bat down every request for a new progression, out of fear it will destroy your progression. I understand the concept, but if the fans on Flippy/Vulak are as passionate as you say, then there should not be a problem for the larger number of fans who also want a new type of rule set.

You are more than welcome to spend a few hours writing your own post as to why they should not open a new classic era rule set, or open a debate thread.

This post is to generate ideas, and solutions for a classic rule set.

Again, I do not want a repeat of Flippy Darkpaw. You've heard my ideas, as I would like a release of Kunark + Original because first and foremost I'"S FUN! It's Fun to level in kunark and/or velious from the get go, and not have to go back and create an alt to use a large portion of the content (Kurns, Warsilik Woods, Frontier, Dreadlands, etc) because your character is already 50 when Kunark launches. (2) alleviate crowdedness of leveling areas and high end content for only one expansion. Be forced to open a 2nd server and divide the populace in half. With MMOs its important to have a strong population on the server, as it is vital to the MMO, therefore, you do not want to have too many server options with the same classical rule set, unless absolutely necessary.Id rather be an overcrowded MMO world, than the soul inhabitant of an empty one. There must be balance between hyper over crowded, and underpopulated.

This would be something different than Flippy/Vulak. Those rule sets were "Progression", and have had their chance. Anyone who loves that style can continue to play Flippy/Vulak or join them. This would not merely be a repeat of PROGRESSION< This is a CLASSIC idea, and it would absolutely have a tremendous population on release for a while yet. (More ideas on how to keep it strong past 1 1/2- 2 years are welcome and needed).

Back to population, you don't want every newbie area, every single high end camp to be taken 24 7 with not enough space available for players to play.

I don't want to suffer through months of solely the original everquest with only one game of higher end content. This makes it easier for a small sect of people to permenantly camp one expasion's worth of content. Hey I would love to go to guk, o wait, that same guy is here, he's been rotating the camp with his guild for 3 weeks straight now for whatever his reason (Possibly to lock down the gear for himself/buddies, or block everyone else out.) If kunark (and/or velious) come released, then you have more space for the original swarm of people. Hey. Guk is camped, ok I'll go try Karnors. Ok there is room in Karnors. Or Sebillis is full, Ill head over to to Nagafen.

You have more space with a ClassicARK (Classic + Kunark), and don't necessarily have to open 2-3 servers. Everything is going to be well used, but not hyper camped and hyper populated. Again, a balance of players versus space is required/

I am ready to hear some other cool ideas such as Trevalon's first post with X time release instead of a barrier + vote release. If everyone knows that you have X time, then there really isn't this sole concept of we must do this as fast as possible so we can get to the next expansion, etc.

Obviously there are thousands upon thousands of fans ready to go on a classic server. However, we need ideas to keep the rule set populated at acceptable levels to enjoy an MMO. Don't just repeat the past, improve it. More ideas from other people, and developers would sure be nice.

As I mentioned, there is not merely one idea that will work. There could be a lot of different ways to focus on a classic rule set, and a lot of ways to make it more fun and different than what has previously been done.

And for the record, I have never seen a rule set open with everquest + kunark and possibly velious- this is new. There have been progression servers on live and other areas, but they all start with solely everquest. There have been new servers that have featured all content. Simply doing this alone makes it unique. How you handle future rules and releases is not limited to one solution or idea. How you do the original release also is not limited to merely my idea.

An official EQ Classic locked server probably wouldn't be as stagnant as you imagine. As the only example we can currently compare, the other classic place to play EQ at the moment has been in Kunark for 3 years. And the population is higher today than it was when Kunark launched.

If SOE put out a server of this type but it had the "It's Official" stamp people would flock to it. I quit the aforementioned classic EQ option when Fippy first launched, fully aware that it was a far cry from the original code, just to play where it was "real". I would come back in a heartbeat if they'd give us another "real" classic server to play around on.

Fizzle, I meant to say your name in my 1st reply, not Flippy. Post your original thoughts so everyone can see your idea/support.

I've gone through the first four pages of TLP forums. I created an excel spreadsheet with the statistics including Title, Views, Replies, and Original Posting Date.

--I viewed each original post, and made sure it was directly regarding the desire for a new progression, or a return to progression.

--All posts related only to Flippy and Vulak, with no mention of a new server or a desire to return to original progression are discluded. I was very strict on this requirement of the forum actually pertaining to wanting a prog/classic server, or a returning player looking to get back into classic style EQ.



The first four pages. 47 direct threads regarding a desire for new progression server, or a returning player who wants to come back to the classic EQ experience or rejoin a form of progression.



There are a total of 90,213 views on these 47 threads.



This is not counting deleted threads.



Now of course, 90,000 views does not mean every view is from a different person. Its just a number showing these posts are being looked at.



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This is only the first 4 pages, only on TLP.



These are only people who have come to forums at all. Think about how many players with the same desire have not posted or even come to the forums. For every consumer that communicates to a company regarding a product (like, dislike, feedback, etc), there are many more who do not. This simply means there are multitudes more people who have the same topics in mind.



--I did not play everquest for a long time. I never once came to these forums during this period to post or view. I wanted to start a new classic server the entire time.

--I have literally 7 (directly communicated about this topic in actual life) other people who would like to play a classic server with me. Only one of them has viewed these forums in the last year. The other 6 have asked me news since I recently returned.


As I back tracked through these threads, there are a large number of requests to even delete all new threads regarding a new progression server because "there are too many of them."

---------------------------------------------------AMA Developers-----------------------------------------------


I went back and read some of the recent AMAs with developers. There have been questions from fanson just about every AMA regarding progression servers or classic rule sets. Most recently, the developers have asked fans for what additional rule sets they want. It always seems the top answer is usually progression or classic.

I would do this.

I have not played in quite some time. Last time I actually played was in 2010 or 2011, and I spent my time divided between a normal server and Flippy. This time around, I have tried to get into the normal servers (Luclin.Stromm and Vox), but it's hard to do so.

It can be difficult to find players and/or groups period, especially as you progress through the content. Most of the population is capped near the highest levels, I understand this concept.

(Please do not inform me of power levels to reach end game, or I can grab a mercenary and solo up to 75-80, no problem. I've done that on a few characters last time I played. I soloed up to 75 on a few characters, grabbed up to 700 AA, etc). I also was pro-actively creating groups in various zones, sending private messages, and more.

I am not here to complain. I am making a statement. I lack the feel of the community. The community that is here (and does actually talk) are often times very nice. It seems a good number of people won't even respond to direct messages as you see them in the world (not even counting the mass quantities of AFK).

"Hey, how's it going,?" (As I see a person enter Wall of Slaughter, the only person I have seen in the last 2 hours)...............No response.

The people who do talk and respond are awesome.

When I last played on Flippy, hardly anyone was afk, and all the space was full. The more content there is, the more land (or space) there is. The more space there is, the less crowded each area becomes. Space and Population are correlated directly. If you only have 1 zone and 1000 players, it will be hyper overpopulated. If you have 100 zones and 1000 players, each zone will be less crowded. [This is not counting any population declines or crisis for a specific server or overall game].

I am not attempting to address every single problem. I'm just saying there is a lot of emptiness and loneliness. Most of it seems to be so much space for only so many players, as well as a majority of the populace being higher. This does affect enjoyment of wanting to group in lower level areas, or even from 60s- 80s, as I try to level up to post 90.

Flippy upon release was vibrant and everyone was grouping, and interacting. I could get a group in just about any zone, or send messages to dozens of people my level and go form them. It was very fun. The world had the correct balance of space versus population.

I'd rather be in an overcrowded zone, rather be the sole inhabitant of the entire world.

There are absolutely good things about current normal servers, and that is why people play (Anniversary events rock, so does seeing a lot of the content). However, there are good things about classic content too, and with the progression servers having advanced so far, I am unable to play at that level.

I recently posted an idea for a new classic rule set (not progression rule set).

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...er-rule-set-for-the-fans.208202/#post-3054417

What I am wondering is why no SOE developers will not directly address the many many players who want the option of a classic feel. It appears that every time a developer is kind enough to answer, it always ends up in "we will discuss it with the team", but there is never directly any relevant information, as to whether this option is even being considered, or is totally out of the picture. Many people would like simply like to know, so they don't have to continually hope in the dark recesses of their mind. If the answer is no, its no. I can then move on from this hope. I don't want to left wondering whether that beautiful woman could have been the girl of my dreams. If she isn't, I want to know she isn't and move on with life. If she is, then I am willing to wait for her.

With the recent AMAs, developers asking fans for what types of rule sets they want, and other things. Will there be some type of new classic rule set server released soon? So many people are dieing to know.

I highly doubt it. The devs are HORRIBLY inconsistent with their responses.

"We think we'll implement more progression servers in the future."

They use the progression servers as an excuse to not fix things in Live servers.

It's despicable.

My excel sheet through the first 4 pages of TLP forums. There are a total of 90,213 views on 47 threads.

These are threads that the original poster states specifically a desire for a new type of classic server, or a returning player wanting to play in classic (whether desiring new server or returning and want to go on present flippy, etc). I was very strict in ruling out forums mentioning only current TLP content.

More on this in my original post for the classic (link above).

It makes alot of sense to bring about a locked server. They can see from the numbers that the server population on the Progression servers always drops after POP.... always....!! Hence why the populations are so low now.

If you make a classic locked server you also may entice Mac players to come over. Look at how well that server is still doing.

I really think alot of people would go to this kind of server. Evidence by the number of people who call for classic server and who play the progression servers only up till POP then jump off. This would make the Devs job easier if they would just make it since then people probally wouldnt scream for new server all the time.

Moved this over to the Progression Server Forum
-04