Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Piestro, Feb 4, 2014.

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  1. Cerris Augur

    This is a fantastic idea and will go a long ways towards making tank classes more viable. Right now, if you start something like a Mage you can go from 1 to 100 and only worry about getting a few hundred AAs along the way. Tanks are told to stop at 60, get a few hundred AAs, stop at 70 for a few hundred more and so on and so forth. It makes for two completely different games.
  2. Lokko New Member

    Warning long post here...

    I'm a returning member just getting back into the game from over 10 years ago. I understand why some of these changes are being discussed, however I disagree with them entirely. At some point, a person needs to spend time with their character at every level to effectively play the character. Although it may be somewhat of a grind, granting automatic AA's takes away from players building that bond with their character through extensive leveling. The grind is a given with this type of game. While I personally would HUGELY benefit from this proposed change, as I don't have the time I used to in playing this type of game, I am totally against it. I would much rather plug away at it as I am today given the opportunity.

    As far as swarming, there is concern when the effect is at the server level as discussed and I agree action should be taken when hardware is being taxed. However, I think there are other solutions available instead of nerfing character class abilities and pissing off people who have invested these large amounts of time into their characters, maybe even primarily because a specific character or class is only capable of doing this type of thing over another. NO ONE IS EVER A FAN OF NERFING.

    One simple proposition would be to limit the number of NPC's that can be aggro'd at a given time per player. Once the max threshold is met (determined by developers to keep servers in check) no more mobs would aggro a given player. This would allow players to continue playing their characters as they have without the unintentional side effects brought upon due to player creativity or ingenuity by spending the time they do in discovering what their character is truely capable of doing. It could even be as extreme as an automatic stun hitting players for a set duration once they have aggro'd a set number of mobs that could easily kill someone and discourage this practice to the extent of which it is being "exploited". I'm not sure exactly how HS works but maybe there is a threshold to the number of times it can be executed and then put on an extended timer for reuse, similar to a Death Touch or Lay of Hands ability, again just thinking out of the box here. As much as it's used I'm sure players who have that class would be disappointed mainly because NO ONE IS EVER A FAN OF NERFING.

    I'm sure their are other potential solutions as well but in making an adjustment like this, to me and I know I'm going to strike a cord here with developers that spend huge amounts of time with this game, but it comes across as being lazy. You took the time to be creative as developers to make these cool abilities and see how players use them and then decide "Well we can't have this, it's not what was intended" and remove that play style from the game. How is that a reward to someone who plays the game? I would just rather see developers hit the same level of creativity in their solutions instead of reducing things through nerfing characters. It seems like that's always the first thing that is looked at because it is effective but as mentioned earlier, NO ONE IS EVER A FAN OF NERFING.

    Solutions like the ones above reduce the need of tweaking abilities to the point it diminishes they way people discovered their "unintended" use, yet still allows players to challenge themselves with new ideas of how to work their chosen profession and still accomplish the...

    "I wonder if I can do this...."

    And it's most common effect...


    I vividly remember how a monks 'feign death' ability redefined how parties played back in the day, and feign death pulling was born. (I tried to replicate it with my Necromancer but unfortunately it didn't have quite the equivical effect). My point is I look at changes like this in this way and ask "What if developers would've removed feign death back in the day?" How much would that have stifled player creativity playing the game? Would it have been as popular a game if that course of action was taken? Players should have a reason to search out for such "unintentional" ways of playing characters and be rewarded for pushing the envelope and making a living doing something new and creative. So what if it becomes the next best thing? Sooner or later someone else will do something else that wasn't "intended". Are you going to wipe that from existence as well or be creative yourself in coming up with a solution that doesn't remove a characters ability to play this way through their newly discovered practice? There should be compromise achieved in allowing players to execute these discovered play styles and simply limiting their effect on how often they can be executed or the extent at which it operates as to allow developers to simutaneously hit their objective without taking away from the customer.

    To sum this up I simply say one of the reasons EQ is such an awesome game and probably stood the test of time is because of that unique ability for a person to play their character in a way that pushes the limits of what may have been "intended". Allowing people to be creative and play outside the box of what is thought up by developers is one of the core reasons people enjoy this game and speaking from experience come back to this game over and over again, and that ability should never be tampered with or taken away via "updates". I implore you to stay true to the game and its subscribers and allow them to continue discovering ways to do things in ways you never even imagined. It's what makes EQ... EQ.
    Leeroy Jenkins likes this.
  3. Carcass New Member

    I've played a ranger for 14 years. I benefitted from headshot when it was grossly overpowered by combination with AE spells in zones like Argath, but not without embarrassment because it was obviously unacceptable. I was actually glad when it was scaled back, but because of its current limits it's gradually becoming irrelevant. Therefore I'm on board with the idea that decreasing its proc rate will admit the potential for making it useful again, for example by letting it work on higher level mobs. Of course, decreasing its proc rate will make it useless today because it only works on a subset of LB mobs. That would be OK if something were gained to offset the nerf. But nerfing it now with no corresponding increase in potency now (or even a solid promise of future compensation) has no value for anyone. As many others have written here, headshot isn't lagging servers. Please hold off on the headshot nerf until you can implement an adjustment that retains some usefulness for the ability.
  4. Pickleweasle Journeyman

    I they are true vets then the auto-grant of aa's will not effect their accomplishment. The PL'ing methods used by some of the players out there..some of these "Veterans" you speak of as well have supplied ALL servers with an influx of people who don't seem to know their classes very well for a very long time do not pander to these boards about this subject. Everyone has felt the sting of the unseasoned level 100 in the group who is not playing their class correctly. If you really want to change this dynamic then actually go out and impart your knowledge to these classes so they can learn it from you "Veterans". EQ used to be a very friendly place with only a few jerks who were not very cool. Now it is commonplace for 24/7 trolling in general chat, new players ridiculed for asking legit questions that most of us find trivial. Granted...class balancing of abilities has long been the main wedge that is driven between classes as one class always feels left out and some feel other classes are overpowered, but NOTHING has driven a deeper wedge between classes than the ability of one class or several to use abilities in a manner that gives them unfair advantage in the game. These activities, while "Clever" in nature they may be, are not meant to be used this way, and tarnishes the class as a whole when it is so widely used.

    I still don't understand why classes would even consider this a nerf. If you ask any SK who has ever swarmed if they were ever expecting to be hit with a nerf, they would tell you yes. Hell, every expansion/update that has ever been done always sees some joker in general chat spouting that MC got nerfed, or some other wording made in a joking manner. The only thing people should be upset over is the amount of time it has taken them to do something about these abilities that have torn the community apart for so long.

    Now SK's can focus on being good tanks again, Zerkers can go back to being a rare class that when played correctly is amazing SOLID dps, Mages and Enchanters have not been fully corrupted by the rampant abuse of their abilities so they can continue dying in groups and raids because they rock the dps as spell-slingers, and rogues can go back to rogue-inating the mobs from behind and kicking butt on the parses as it was intended. Every class has it's strengths and weaknesses which allow us to rely on other classes to have fun. Yes, there can be great points made about solo-ability of any given class and this is where the devs should be spending more time and effort than the community feels they have been. Maybe a better means of communication can be attempted between the devs and players some time before the game dies. Unfortunately, nobody bothers posting here unless there is a gripe or actual solution is lost in the emotion of the post, just as any point I was trying to make has long been lost in this long-winded rant I am making here.

    Look know it was coming..the gold sub auto-aa grant thing is a good idea. Yes it came too late for some of us who have been buying aa's from SC store as a silver account or those who have been grinding the crap out of them for years...but it is a solution for outdated content and aa's for new players . Everyone needs to keep on, keepin on and destroy some mobs with some friends and get back to the community we used to have..a community that cares what people think of them and their reputation. A community that is happy to answer questions and try to positively effect the game instead of allowing the trolls to drive this game down into the gutter along with their general chat expressions.

    I am 40 years old, I have played the game for 13 years, I have no desire to try anything else because I love me some EQ. Peace all!
    Belchere likes this.
  5. Zanmar New Member

    I know right, I always have a group full when I am killing. I don't ask for anything in return 99% of the time. I don't pull whole zones. my record pull is 32 in the grounds, which respawned 5 mins later. I can only swarm kill twice in an hour. I use it maybe twice in a day anyways.
  6. silku Augur

    Not a fan of this at all. Why give it away when it's already so easy to get? 4k aa is nothing. This simply says those who have been here all along.. well you get nothing. But if you start playing EQ right now, we'll give you everything they had to work for. *facepalm*
    ApollyonJones likes this.
  7. Numzan Augur

    This is all wrong..... AA's given? noooooo

    1. Give anyone under 5000 AA's as gold account, x4 the bonus. Do not hand them to anyone.

    You will ultimately ruin the system in place for advancement. You will tick off the masses that have just worked so hard to gain them. You will also pick and choose what ones we don't want.

    if > 10% on AA grant X4 the bonus.
    If > 10% AA and less then 95LVL grant bonus for catch-up.

    but for gawd sakes don't just hand it to people.
    ApollyonJones likes this.
  8. Soulrheever Journeyman

    "A number of hit-charges on Lich Sting and Mortal Coil that wouldn't interfere with a normal number of mobs, but wouldn't hold up to the number of mobs used in swarming.

    Even 999 hit charges would be fine, you're never going to hit that many times in a normal exp/raid situation in 2.5 minutes, but those charges will evaporate in seconds against 80-160 mobs.

    Similar to how the SK discs last for full duration in normal circumstances, but are eaten through almost immediately while swarming."

    - I'll second that: excellent solution, retains all the utility of the ability and denies swarming potential.
  9. Mindaerel New Member

    As a player that has grown up with this game, I do like this idea. I can understand why a lot of people are upset about it, but you all have to understand. Grinding out levels is time consuming enough and with every new added expansion, the AA grind gets a little more daunting. I can see why to players who already have maxed out characters this wouldn't be such a huge deal, but this isn't just about you. It's about the player base as a whole. This will suck, I have quite a few AAs on my Shaman myself, but think about how much time you can save not having to grind out those first 2k AAs just to be important to the party or be able to solo/duo effectively.

    Here is what I propose. The players who have maxed out their AAs and spent so much time on their characters should not be kicked to the curb. I think anyone over a certain number of AA points should receive a special title they can flaunt and prove they worked extremely hard on their character before these changes were made. Also, to the people saying this game will turn in to WoW... I think that's going a little overboard. No player with the mind set you are depicting ("WoW players", since most use this phrase as a derogatory term) would have the attitude to keep up with a game like this. They would quit in a week. Also, let's stop dragging WoW into this. Just because you dare to touch it doesn't make you a total scumbag, yeah? THIS game was the original "crack" game. Not World of Warcrack, it was Evercrack hahaha.

    Anyways, that's just my opinion. The players who put so much dedication in to their characters deserve a little extra imho. A title, a mount, or just whatever. If you are really going through with this, which I honestly think you should, give them a little something in return.
  10. Jaylin Augur

    The amount of auto granting i do feel is a bit high. But i imagine it might be a lot of extra code work to go picking and choosing as opposed to just saying "this expansion autogrant all=yes" type situation. If we had the choice, i wouldnt autogrant that much. For tanks i would do all defensive to X expansion, healers all heals to x expansion. DPS crit chance and so on. But with an option to take it or not. I like the concept of auto granting, for catch up purposes.

    I like how alot are whining about how they worked for it and they deserve it. Most of the current player base is quite spoiled though and its a gimme gimme gimme, but dont give to anyone else mentality. I have never on the 3 characters i actually played had the bonus xp for aa... I have always been over the cap, on all active non new characters.. Most players still playing do not remember the old days, but god forbid some others can have an easy mode similar to how they had it.... Xp bonuses... lessons.... XP pots.... Big claim rewards... collectibles.... lobby rez.... spawning with gear so you dont die to an ae right when you are rezzed in....
  11. Reincarnated Lorekeeper

    My .02..

    All access means nothing to me as I play zero games other then Everquest, so I won't need it.

    As for nerfs, why bother the rangers. They have already been cut back considerably over time, I think the fact that they can kill some light blue mobs and keep to themselves in relatively underplayed zones isn't the end of the world.

    I very rarely have any issues of a ranger's gameplay, at least I haven't to date. They know where they can go and how to respect the others around them. I've never seen one pulling an entire zone either, so kind of null.
    Leerah likes this.
  12. Tarvas Augur

    Yes, because it is the development teams fault about which hardware they run their game on.
  13. javiere New Member

    I love it.

    The only reason i even use my 95 ranger is the headshot farm AAs for lowbies, and my SK swarming turning zones into clunking piles of poo is just silly, and once again only done to catchup people on all the low end AAs.

    Remove the need for "catchup" AAs so only current ones are necessary, and suddenly the need for the creative workarounds to earn vast AA is removed.

    Sure i earnt 20k AAs across my different characters the hard way, but whining about "and now someone gets that for free" - shrug, happens constantly - my first few hundred AAs in luclin took me months and months of farming like a demon, now i can get a few hundred AAs in hours - this way at least a certain baseline AA competence will be found on every character.

    On a side note, it should mitigate mercs being much better than players level 51-85, as those players will be capped on AAs (which no player would have ever really knuckled down and done).
    Leerah likes this.
  14. Carel Da Bard Journeyman

    Rather than give AAs. Use the existing hotzone quest system. Lower the request time from 18 to 4 hours. Keep the same amount of xp rewarded. In a few weeks you can get a few thousand AA. Maybe give regular xp as a reward as well.
    beryon likes this.
  15. Ancientvine New Member

    Dear Developer_01,

    With regards to your proposed AA change, please consider the following code logic instead:

    'continuous Lesson of the Devoted xp bonus for the lowbies
    Sub Post_Char_Load
    If mychar.aa_count < 4000 then
    my_xp_rate = xp_rate*2
    print login_chat_message "You character is currently receiving the double experience bonus!"
    End if
    End Sub

    You are welcome!
    beryon likes this.
  16. Yumraz New Member

    Curious what the Page Life Expectency looks like when this is occurring ?
    Leerah likes this.
  17. idej Augur

    I can log on an hour a day on weekdays. Without the burst exp from some of these abilities there is no point to logging on anymore. At this point I will log on the weekend for my group grind session and begin to look at other games to keep me busy during the week.

    AA guides would be more beneficial than granting free AA's.
  18. Dalamyre Journeyman

    Why does everyone complain about Sony being money hungry and all they want is our $15 a month per account.

    Duh they are a company that made a product that we as consumers pay for how dare they want to make a profit so they can earn a living and keep adding to this product.

    I hear people complaining about this and then blaming EQ's old hardware. You want better servers and hardware and less lay offs and more attention well then pay up it is us as consumers that pay for everquest that make it possible through financial support to keep this game up and running and expanding.

    Omg I want reimbursed cuz you are giving some free stuff away and I didn't get any. Thats like asking Mc Donalds for free burgers because you paid full price for a big mac 14 years ago and today they are on sale.
  19. Maccuul Elder

    I am on the side of the auto-grants myself.
    I have heard time and time again from old friends they would like to come back but the mountains of aa are too daunting.

    I have earned my aa. I was one of the top aa Shaman for many many years.
    I am max aa on multiple chars with very little to do.
    It doesn't bother me or affect me in anyway giving people aa from 4 expansions ago.

    A lot of people are forgetting these are supposedly ALTERNATE abilities.
    Over the years to give people things to do and balance content they have become more "required" abilities.
    Apply to any decent raid guild at level 100 and 0 aa?
    Yeah I don't think so.
    Honestly I think I would die laughing watching a level 100 tank with 0 aa tanking level 100 content.
    The design was for these abilities to not be required.
    So no I have no issues at all with auto-granting old aa that are several years outdated.

    I do agree however that there should be some bonus/reward for staying ahead of the auto-grants.
  20. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Re: Shining Rampart changes -

    An increase in mana cost, use of 2 buff slots, and reduction in number of procs hurts Clerics in non-swarming environments as well.

    Would you consider changing the skill type of the Shining line to Alteration (Lingering Sloth is also Alteration)? I don't really consider these spells alike - Lingering Sloth is costly manawise, but has a slow and heal proc. The stun on Shining Rampart isn't really on the same level.

    40 is pretty low. I parsed 60 procs in 9 minutes vs 1 monster. A cap of 60 would be much better.

    Also, I do not really see the point of separating this into two buffs. If either one fades, I would want to recast the buff - both parts are important. I'm guessing it's a coding issue?
    Koveras and Mozzarella like this.
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